Sophie, Clemantine too has liver shunt - YorkieTalk.com Forums

clemantine · 04-06-2005, 06:53 AM

Clemantine was diagnosed last monday with LSD. Her bile test # is at 23. She was tested fasting and after eating. She is on a diet now, hopefully that is all we will have to do. Since her diet change she i8s acting more like a puppy. Vet told me next step is antibiotic a week out of every month. If that doesn't work, specialist and surgery. She is almost 4 months. My question to the experienced is....what is the youngest age they can be tested? When i get my next one, I would like to know before I get attached if they have LSD or not.

SoCalyorkiLvr · 04-06-2005, 07:08 AM

Wow! I am learning more and more about livershunt. I thought you were safe after about 10 weeks. That doesn't seem to be the case. I know they can be tested as young puppies but they have to be healthy enough to fast for that long. In the case of a tiny yorkie that has to eat every 3-4 hours to avoid hypoglycemia this is not possible until they are a little older, at least 12-16 weeks. Another reason to let the breeder hold onto to a tiny as long as possible.

My last breeder would feed the last meal at 6 in the evening and be at the vets office when they opened to get the test done and then feed the puppy. That sounds like the way to do it to make it less difficult for the puppy. I think the fasting time is 12 hours. I'm not sure.

I hope the diet change and antibiotics works for your baby!

Gingi · 04-06-2005, 07:38 AM

Goodness...I'm so sorry for you and Clementine. Molly and I will pray for her recovery and send you both well wishes and puppy kisses

whispersmom2 · 04-06-2005, 08:31 AM

Oh, mercy! I am so sorry to hear of Clemmie's diagnosis.
I have tiny Yorkies sometimes who, no matter what the age, cannot fast for 12 hours. Then, the vet has to force feed the required food. So, I have a blood panel done first at 10 weeks or so...If there are any changes in the levels, I would take the risk and have the Bile Acids done..I hope the diet is successful in keeping her symptoms in check..
I wanted to ask what the antibiotic regimen would be given for? I cannot find out from my books. Gosh, I hope that is all it takes to keep your baby around for a very long time..

jennifermcb · 04-06-2005, 10:04 AM

I am *so sorry* to hear this. I'm just going to cry right along with you. I'm still in shock and a bit of denial over this. Even though Sophie's diagnosis isn't confirmed, I'm preparing for the worst, but hoping for the best.

Sending out lots of love and prayers to Clementine.

YorkieRose · 04-06-2005, 10:29 AM

These posts are heartbreaking...I think it makes it easier for pet owners to see why some breeders wait longer to let them go. So many people post that the problems showed up at 9, 10, 11 weeks...giving the price of the puppy back is not enough..you can not reinbruse heartbreak.

mmyorkies · 04-06-2005, 10:59 AM

I had the litter of puppies I had tested at 8 weeks. That way I knew they were clean of any liver problems before I decided to sell any of them. I had also had both the sire and dam tested before breeding them, but LS can skip a gerneration or even a couple of generations before showing up again. I always tell anyone that I know is looking for a yorkie puppy to insist it be given a bile acid test before they take it home. Even if they have to pay for it, it is a lot cheaper to put out 50 to 100 for the test, than it is to put out 3000 to 5000 for the surgery to correct it.

whispersmom2 · 04-06-2005, 01:48 PM

I agree with YorkieRose!! These bile acid tests at really early ages are iffy but even that does not suggest that you not have some testing done...Old timers are noticing that PSS is more commen now than ever. I think that, in part, is because of the number of BYB's or just plain ole uneducated, greedy people who only know how to put 2 dogs together and make puppies that can be sold at higher prices than ever..
I KNOW PSS can crop up at any time in any litter in any breeder's program. But, those parents should NEVER be bred together again. Also, the breeder should keep their puppies til they are a minimum of 12 weeks old..and even older is better..
For potential buyers, do not fear that your 4-5 month old newly purchased puppy will not bond as well as if you had gotten it at 10 weeks. These babies are totally adaptable...My last female was placed at 19 weeks.. She is a pistol...

1live4Bentley · 04-06-2005, 03:58 PM

My name is Ann Simons and I have a yorkie puppy named Bentley. He is 4 and a half months old. Since I received him as a gift for Christmas, Bentley and I have been inseperable. He goes everywhere with me and loves to ride in his bag wherever I go. I have grown to love and learned to care for him as I would a child. Before, I had cats but there is no comparison to the devotion needed and given back, ten-fold.

I am writing in the hopes that someone will know of an organization or fund that may help to cover the cost of surgery Bentley now requires. Two nights ago, I noticed him acting funny...he wasn't running or darting around the room and highly unusual, he wasn't looking at me. His eyes (and head) were moving back and forth rapidly as if he was seeing things and he was stiff and stationary. In a panic (but trying not to show him) I rushed him to the ER where they ran blood work and watched him overnight (leaving to go home without him was one of THE hardest things I've ever had to do in my life).

The same thing happened last night, except this time I knew the reason he was acting this way was because he was having a seizure. I received word that the further tests they ran, indicate he has a portosystemic shunt. This is what has been causing him to have seizures.

This is devastating because although I have medicine and new food to try and help prevent the seizures in the short term, surgery is required to fix his condition. This surgery is rumored to be costly (I've heard anywhere from $2,000 - $4,000). There is no way I can afford this and my heart is breaking because I do not know what else I can do. I've called pet insurance companies, the local humane society, the local college veterinary school and I am at a loss as to where to turn next. He is so young and has so much more to experience! I tell you, he is the sweetest thing and is so good and just always there with me and for me. The bond we have is unbelievable.

Therefore, if you know of any possible donations or charities or funds
available for people in this situation, will you please let me know? You can email me at ann.simons@gmail.com. Thank you.

YorkieRose · 04-06-2005, 04:13 PM

Doesn't the Terri Shumsky LS fund help pet owners? Terri recently passed away, but I would think someone will take over the funding...MM posted the site on the other LS post..best wishes.

Connie · 04-06-2005, 05:46 PM

My gosh...this is the 3rd puppy I've read about with liver shunt. I am so sorry to hear Clemantine has liver shunt. My heart goes out to you and I'll be praying for you! Best wishes!

YorkieRose · 04-07-2005, 05:26 AM

When I started breeding Yorkie's they were not in the top 10 AKC breeds..I think they were 15..now they are 6 or 7??? When a breed gets so popular they are mass produced, that leads to many health issues coming to the surface. Liver Shunt in Yorkie's is becoming the heart problem of the Cavaliers spaniels.

Reese · 04-07-2005, 05:57 AM

All these posts have almost brought me to tears here at work. I am so sorry to hear about all your babies illnesses. All of your puppies are in my prayers.

Clemantine,
Other than the bile test were there other symptoms you noticed about your baby to lead you to believe there was something wrong?

04-06-2005, 06:53 AM	#1
clemantine Yorkie Talker Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Nebraska Posts: 20	Sophie, Clemantine too has liver shunt Clemantine was diagnosed last monday with LSD. Her bile test # is at 23. She was tested fasting and after eating. She is on a diet now, hopefully that is all we will have to do. Since her diet change she i8s acting more like a puppy. Vet told me next step is antibiotic a week out of every month. If that doesn't work, specialist and surgery. She is almost 4 months. My question to the experienced is....what is the youngest age they can be tested? When i get my next one, I would like to know before I get attached if they have LSD or not.

04-06-2005, 07:38 AM	#3
Gingi Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: North Carolina Posts: 155	Goodness...I'm so sorry for you and Clementine. Molly and I will pray for her recovery and send you both well wishes and puppy kisses __________________ ~~~Gingi and Molly ~~~

04-06-2005, 10:29 AM	#6
YorkieRose No Longer a Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: South Florida Posts: 8,577	Ls These posts are heartbreaking...I think it makes it easier for pet owners to see why some breeders wait longer to let them go. So many people post that the problems showed up at 9, 10, 11 weeks...giving the price of the puppy back is not enough..you can not reinbruse heartbreak.

04-06-2005, 03:58 PM	#9
1live4Bentley No Longer a Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Atlanta, Georgia Posts: 2	Bentley has a systemic shunt - surgery too expensive! My name is Ann Simons and I have a yorkie puppy named Bentley. He is 4 and a half months old. Since I received him as a gift for Christmas, Bentley and I have been inseperable. He goes everywhere with me and loves to ride in his bag wherever I go. I have grown to love and learned to care for him as I would a child. Before, I had cats but there is no comparison to the devotion needed and given back, ten-fold. I am writing in the hopes that someone will know of an organization or fund that may help to cover the cost of surgery Bentley now requires. Two nights ago, I noticed him acting funny...he wasn't running or darting around the room and highly unusual, he wasn't looking at me. His eyes (and head) were moving back and forth rapidly as if he was seeing things and he was stiff and stationary. In a panic (but trying not to show him) I rushed him to the ER where they ran blood work and watched him overnight (leaving to go home without him was one of THE hardest things I've ever had to do in my life). The same thing happened last night, except this time I knew the reason he was acting this way was because he was having a seizure. I received word that the further tests they ran, indicate he has a portosystemic shunt. This is what has been causing him to have seizures. This is devastating because although I have medicine and new food to try and help prevent the seizures in the short term, surgery is required to fix his condition. This surgery is rumored to be costly (I've heard anywhere from $2,000 - $4,000). There is no way I can afford this and my heart is breaking because I do not know what else I can do. I've called pet insurance companies, the local humane society, the local college veterinary school and I am at a loss as to where to turn next. He is so young and has so much more to experience! I tell you, he is the sweetest thing and is so good and just always there with me and for me. The bond we have is unbelievable. Therefore, if you know of any possible donations or charities or funds available for people in this situation, will you please let me know? You can email me at ann.simons@gmail.com. Thank you.

04-06-2005, 04:13 PM	#10
YorkieRose No Longer a Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: South Florida Posts: 8,577	funding Doesn't the Terri Shumsky LS fund help pet owners? Terri recently passed away, but I would think someone will take over the funding...MM posted the site on the other LS post..best wishes.

04-06-2005, 07:08 AM	#2
SoCalyorkiLvr BANNED! Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 8,246	Wow! I am learning more and more about livershunt. I thought you were safe after about 10 weeks. That doesn't seem to be the case. I know they can be tested as young puppies but they have to be healthy enough to fast for that long. In the case of a tiny yorkie that has to eat every 3-4 hours to avoid hypoglycemia this is not possible until they are a little older, at least 12-16 weeks. Another reason to let the breeder hold onto to a tiny as long as possible. My last breeder would feed the last meal at 6 in the evening and be at the vets office when they opened to get the test done and then feed the puppy. That sounds like the way to do it to make it less difficult for the puppy. I think the fasting time is 12 hours. I'm not sure. I hope the diet change and antibiotics works for your baby!

04-06-2005, 08:31 AM	#4
whispersmom2 Inactive Account Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: MD Posts: 2,985	Oh, mercy! I am so sorry to hear of Clemmie's diagnosis. I have tiny Yorkies sometimes who, no matter what the age, cannot fast for 12 hours. Then, the vet has to force feed the required food. So, I have a blood panel done first at 10 weeks or so...If there are any changes in the levels, I would take the risk and have the Bile Acids done..I hope the diet is successful in keeping her symptoms in check.. I wanted to ask what the antibiotic regimen would be given for? I cannot find out from my books. Gosh, I hope that is all it takes to keep your baby around for a very long time..

04-06-2005, 10:04 AM	#5
jennifermcb Charmed by Sophie & Daisy Donating Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: North Alabama Posts: 593	I am so sorry to hear this. I'm just going to cry right along with you. I'm still in shock and a bit of denial over this. Even though Sophie's diagnosis isn't confirmed, I'm preparing for the worst, but hoping for the best. Sending out lots of love and prayers to Clementine.

04-06-2005, 10:59 AM	#7
mmyorkies No Longer a Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 357	I had the litter of puppies I had tested at 8 weeks. That way I knew they were clean of any liver problems before I decided to sell any of them. I had also had both the sire and dam tested before breeding them, but LS can skip a gerneration or even a couple of generations before showing up again. I always tell anyone that I know is looking for a yorkie puppy to insist it be given a bile acid test before they take it home. Even if they have to pay for it, it is a lot cheaper to put out 50 to 100 for the test, than it is to put out 3000 to 5000 for the surgery to correct it.

04-06-2005, 01:48 PM	#8
whispersmom2 Inactive Account Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: MD Posts: 2,985	I agree with YorkieRose!! These bile acid tests at really early ages are iffy but even that does not suggest that you not have some testing done...Old timers are noticing that PSS is more commen now than ever. I think that, in part, is because of the number of BYB's or just plain ole uneducated, greedy people who only know how to put 2 dogs together and make puppies that can be sold at higher prices than ever.. I KNOW PSS can crop up at any time in any litter in any breeder's program. But, those parents should NEVER be bred together again. Also, the breeder should keep their puppies til they are a minimum of 12 weeks old..and even older is better.. For potential buyers, do not fear that your 4-5 month old newly purchased puppy will not bond as well as if you had gotten it at 10 weeks. These babies are totally adaptable...My last female was placed at 19 weeks.. She is a pistol...

04-06-2005, 05:46 PM	#11
Connie Loved by Maddie & Libby Donating Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: North Dakota Posts: 10,732	My gosh...this is the 3rd puppy I've read about with liver shunt. I am so sorry to hear Clemantine has liver shunt. My heart goes out to you and I'll be praying for you! Best wishes!

04-07-2005, 05:26 AM	#12
YorkieRose No Longer a Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: South Florida Posts: 8,577	Ls When I started breeding Yorkie's they were not in the top 10 AKC breeds..I think they were 15..now they are 6 or 7??? When a breed gets so popular they are mass produced, that leads to many health issues coming to the surface. Liver Shunt in Yorkie's is becoming the heart problem of the Cavaliers spaniels.

04-07-2005, 05:57 AM	#13
Reese Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 109	All these posts have almost brought me to tears here at work. I am so sorry to hear about all your babies illnesses. All of your puppies are in my prayers. Clemantine, Other than the bile test were there other symptoms you noticed about your baby to lead you to believe there was something wrong? __________________ Reese's Mommy