low fat, low protein, low phosphorus food suggestions

[DBlain]

does anyone know of a good quality food that ticks all 3 boxes
Low Fat
Low Protein
Low Phosphorus

[Scoobstersmom]

DBlain, does your dog have kidney disease? My last yorkie had chronic renal failure and also chronic pancreatitis. He required a low phos and low protein diet for his kidneys, but most of the kidney diets have high fat. He couldn't do the fat because of the pancreatitis. It was very hard to find a food that ticked all the categories he needed. I occasionally fed him the low fat gastro diet by Royal Canin, but mostly I ended up home cooking for him because the RC food isn't particularly low in phosporous. He lived 3+ years after his kidney diagnosis with only occasional mild flares of his pancreatitis on a home cooked diet. A nutritionist may be able to help you plan a diet that will work. We did that, but he tired of the same meals every day so I ended up altering a couple of kidney diets that I found online by substituting low fat items for the higher fat items in the kidney diets.

Hope this helps.

Diana

[107barney]

Originally Posted by DBlain

does anyone know of a good quality food that ticks all 3 boxes
Low Fat
Low Protein
Low Phosphorus

You might need a nutritionist consultation to get an answer to this. For example, how low fat, how low phosphorous and why low protein? I have a dog on a low phosphorous diet and it happens to be lower fat but the protein is not low because of the type of protein used. I use and recommend petdiets.

[Yorkiemom1]

Originally Posted by 107barney

You might need a nutritionist consultation to get an answer to this. For example, how low fat, how low phosphorous and why low protein? I have a dog on a low phosphorous diet and it happens to be lower fat but the protein is not low because of the type of protein used. I use and recommend petdiets.

I think this is an excellent idea....this could prove to be quite a balancing act, and you would want to be certain you were getting all your bases covered....I would recommend a nutritionist to be sure you were not neglecting any angle of a balance diet.

[DBlain]

[QUOTE=Scoobstersmom;4617599]DBlain, does your dog have kidney disease? My last yorkie had chronic renal failure and also chronic pancreatitis. He required a low phos and low protein diet for his kidneys, but most of the kidney diets have high fat. He couldn't do the fat because of the pancreatitis. It was very hard to find a food that ticked all the categories he needed. I occasionally fed him the low fat gastro diet by Royal Canin, but mostly I ended up home cooking for him because the RC food isn't particularly low in phosporous. He lived 3+ years after his kidney diagnosis with only occasional mild flares of his pancreatitis on a home cooked diet. A nutritionist may be able to help you plan a diet that will work. We did that, but he tired of the same meals every day so I ended up altering a couple of kidney diets that I found online by substituting low fat items for the higher fat items in the kidney diets.
Hope this helps. Diana[/QUOTE

Quite honestly the vet does not know if she has kidney problems, Lola is 5 and had blood work done for a dental and the lab the vet uses includes a new test called SDMA that seems to be a good indicator in detecting early kidney problems a year or so before the bun and creatine numbers are elevated. 0-14 is normal, 15-20 is early stages kidney disease, and over 20 is full blown kidney disease. In Lola's past bloodwork sometimes her creatine has been a point or two high but nothing her former vet was ever concerned with. In fact when the current vet's office called to clear me for her dental they said "bloodwork was fine everything is good". I asked for a copy of the bloodwork like I always do and there under SDMA it had a full paragraph on how 15 to 20 indicated early stage kidney disease. After I settled down from freaking out I did a lot of reading and then spoke with the vet. We decided that the next step would be a urine test today at the start of the dental procedure before the fluids they would be giving her would dilute the sample, they planned on palpating it out of her but were not able to since her bladder was empty, I thought three hours between her going potty would be enough but it wasn't and LOL trying to catch it myself is not proving to be an easy task We are going to try again tomorrow and if not successful they said bring her in next week and two techs will chase her around their yard
As you guessed she has had a pancreatic attack in early December. It was a mild one and she recovered in two days and then we changed her diet to Royal Canine GD which as you know is higher in protein and phosphorous than a renal diet calls for. I really think it is too early to tell if she has chronic pancreatitis, but I have a hunch she does not, in looking back she had been eating a lot of store bought treats, my husband would let her lick his ice cream bowl (when it was not chocolate) once a week she had half a piece of bacon and a bit of scrambled eggs, we had been out to event a few days before the attack and I found out a friend gave her some hot dog pieces and then when her tummy seemed to feel bad I gave her Pepcid in some small pieces of cheddar cheese, when reading this all back it seems like a lot of harmful food but at the time the pieces seemed so small and not given all the time so I did not think it was bad, but the vet said just one meal could trigger it. So now of course her food is low fat and we have cut way back on treats, no bacon, no cheese, no ice cream and so forth. I have had her lipase and amylase numbers checked three times since December and they are low and her energy level is sky high, so all is good there. Will pancreatitis come back; who knows but with eliminating table food and high fat treats I think we will be OK. The one thing I did different since her Dec attack is to give her more boiled white meat chicken and sweet potato as a snack in lieu of the other stuff she had been used to getting, but now I have stopped feeding straight chicken.
So where do we go next, first get that urine test, then I think I want to find a food with middle of the row numbers pertaining to protein and fat, I think I will be more concerned with the protein level but will not put her on the renal diet (at least not yet). I will cut out chicken and other high protein snacks, she has never been a fan of cheerios or fruit or veggies so using that as a treat will not work but she will eat the very small milk bone trail mix and that is low in both fat and protein. She rings jingle bells to go potty and since 4 months of age is used to getting 2 treats when she comes in from potty, now I have a toy ready and lucky for me she loves to fetch so when we come back in I immediately start throwing the toy, this has kept her from going to stand by the cupboard where the treats are kept. In 6 months I will have her blood work tested again. The vet spoke to Royal Canine and they said to mix Renal Diet and GD diet, honestly I don't like that idea, I would rather find a food that better balances things out so I know what she is getting. I also like the suggestion of a nutritionist, but have no idea how to find one, so I will ask the vet when we discuss the urine test.

On a good note her dental went well, for a 5 year old 5.5Lb dog she has excellent teeth this was her first cleaning and based on a grade from 0-4 with 0 being the best they said she was a 0. They did find one tiny molar that was loose so they took that out but it did not even require pain killers and since she has been home she has been squeaking her new toy nonstop.
Sorry this was so long winded but wanted to fully explain, thanks everybody for your suggestions.

here is the info on the SDMA test, I am so glad my vet included this in the blood panel

https://www.idexx.com/small-animal-h...y-disease.html


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[Scoobstersmom]

Hi. I am familiar with the SDMA test, and very familiar with kidney disease. I understand you're panicked in relation to the SDMA number but what WAS her number? Also, this test is very new and data is still being collected. It is a tool in the toolbox in identifying dogs with early kidney disease or that are predisposed to it, but this test alone is not enough to offer significant data for a diagnosis. It is to be evaluated alongside bloodwork and a urinalysis and can give a more clear picture of how your dog's kidneys are functioning. So try not to get in a panic yet. Whatever the number was, if it was high enough to worry you, then a urinalysis is a good next step. When you do the urinalysis, I am sure your vet will want to test urine specific gravity (USG). The test will give info on how well your dog is concentrating her urine. The first pee of the day will be the most concentrated so try to catch that one. Dogs with early kidney disease will have urine that is more dilute. It is good that you are taking the steps to rule out the kidney disease early though. Its a terrible diagnosis, and the peace of mind is priceless.

Diana

[DBlain]

sorry I thought I had wrote it was a 15, so just one number over what they say is normal. I read about the gravity test and I assume that is what the vet will do that is why he did not want to take it after she was giving IV fluids, but I will be sure to ask. I am so nervous about not being able to catch her pee, this morning each time I tried to put something under her she would freak out. It will also be hard to keep her from going before the vet opens, they open at 8 and we get up about 5:45 am Mon-Sat LOL maybe I will have to use this as an excuse to sleep in one day

[Scoobstersmom]

DBlain, yes that can be challenging! I use a soup ladle and just slide it right under my girl as soon as she starts going. It's a little tougher with the boys.

15 is just right on the edge, so you are smart to follow up, but it is not definitive in itself. Evaluating in conjunction with urine specific gravity and the fact that your girl has had elevated creatinine in the past will enable your vet to have a more clear picture of what is going on with the kidneys.

Diana

[DBlain]

for some reason I thought it would be easier with the boys since they lift their leg. I would have though a soup ladle would be to deep, it's a great idea to use something with a long handle, I have some spoons that I will try. I am going to see if my husband will help me on Sunday, it's the day we sleep in a little later. Cross your fingers and paws for me. I really want to get this done early in the week, my husband and I go on a week vacation next Sat and she will be left all week at a pet sitters house so I want to figure out the food. Does your girl have a problem also?

[DBlain]

Do you think the SDMA numbers are the type that vary from one day to the next I know some of the other values do

BTW thank you for all your input I appreciate it

[Scoobstersmom]

Nope, it was my very first yorkie that had kidney disease. We lost him 16 months ago. But, he lived to be over 16 years old and battled kidney failure and chronic pancreatitis for the last 3+ years of his life.

My female is a little toy poodle. They have longer legs than yorkies, so maybe that's why the soup ladle slides right under her. After what I went through with my Scooby and his kidneys, I'm pretty anal about keeping a close watch on the rest of my dog's kidneys. They have blood work at least every year and it now includes the SDMA test, and I do a urinalysis yearly as well. I know BUN can vary based on diet, and there can also be slight variations in crea based on diet but I've not heard that about the SDMA. Good question to ask my vet though. Thanks for bringing it up.

Good luck catching that sample!

Diana

[DBlain]

good news thanks to you, this morning I made her wait before taking her out, then I used a short leash and took out a long handle narrow metal spoon with a medium deep well. I then rubbed and pressed on her stomach around her bladder, she squatted a few times but as soon as I tried to put the spoon under her she would freeze but eventually she gave in and went. She has long hair with a big fluffy tail and is short to the ground so I really was not even sure the spoon was in the right place, so the whole time she was going I was silently praying, "please let there be some pee on the spoon" Low and behold there was quite a bit of urine there which I then gingerly carried inside like it was liquid gold I am going to let my vet know my technique because for small dogs I think this long spoon is a good idea, I was approaching her from the front with a tin pie plate which really was too wide to go between her legs, but I remembered that's what my mother in law did but then she had a westie which is much bigger. I liked the long spoon because I could go in from behind between her back legs and just slide it under and not really bother her. I am so glad I trained Lola to go on a leash instead of running loose, if she was used to peeing off leash like my sister's yorkie this would have been harder. LOL I know you are on the other side of the country but I hope you can feel me grinning ear to ear at my success and had you not mentioned the ladle I never would have though of it. Thanks you your advice and I will let you know what the vet finds. Donna

[TxVicki]

I hope you are going to take this urine sample to the Vet today, as it only good for so long. Because everything thing settles and you won't get a good reading on the sample. ALSO you have to remember that the urine sample needs to be kept in the Fridge.

[DBlain]

I am taking it to the vet this morning, they open at 9 but I did not know about the fridge, in fact I was afraid to let it get to cold. I am curious though if they have to send it out to a lab how does that work since they are most likely not there on Saturday

[DBlain]

now I am bummed I just read about collecting urine and it did say how important it was to refrigerate right away, it's been sitting on my kitchen counter for about an hour and a half. I wanted to go to the gym and then drop it off but I was afraid to leave it in the cold car................. I swear so many vets and their office help suck, they never told me to keep it cold, never gave me advice on how to catch it, and of course told me the blood work was normal. Now I am not sure if I want to wait until Monday and do this again, I will call the vet when they open and discuss it with them. Thank goodness for the internet and for places like yorkie talk where you can get advice. Thanks Vicki