Help me make the argument for home cooking

[gaijingirl]

Snickers is a MVD baby. When he was diagnosed at UT last summer, I discussed with his specialist there (who is also a nutritionist) about my desire to feed a home cooked diet. He was really sick at the time and tested positive for clostridial overgrowth also. We decided to put him on L/D for at least 6 months, until he was more stable.

He has been on a really strict diet of absolutely nothing other than l/d since last August. He gets L/D for food and he gets L/D for treats. He loves the food and has been doing pretty well on it.

But, I have always felt in my heart that home cooking was a better option. I have read about people who try it and have great success with it and feel it has improved the health of their dogs. I think my whole thing is that I want to know that with whatever happens later on, I did everything and all I could to help my dog live the highest quality of life possible. I don't want to regret when he is older that I could have done more to make his life longer or better.

My husband is not too thrilled about my home cooking plan. He's kind of got the mentality of if it isn't broke, don't fix it. He thinks that Snickers has been doing well on the L/D so we shouldn't change anything. I see his point, but what if he could do better?

I recently went back to UT with Snickers and we had a nutrition consult there. We discussed the pros and cons of home cooking, which I am aware of from the research I have done on the subject. The Dr. said it was OK if I wanted to add a few veggies now as treats. So, last weekend I gave about 2 or 3 peas one night and then 3 or 4 the next....And Snickers also started getting sick again around the same time. Lethargic, vomiting and bloody diarrhea. Same as last year. Both the vet at UT and my local vet said that it was highly unlikely that those few peas caused him to get sick. My local vet said he thought the sudden symptoms returning could have been stress from traveling to UT and having all the tests and consults with the different Dr.'s there. My husband still thinks it was the peas, since that was the only thing different he has been fed since last summer.
This episode of Snickers getting sick just gives him more of a reason to think we shouldn't not change the L/D.

I personally think he may be jealous that I don't like to cook for us, but am more than willing to cook for the dog!

So, for all you who home cook: What is your argument for why you feel it has been the best for your dog? What kind of success have you had with it that I could share?

[107barney]

I home cook for all my dogs, including my dog with MVD.

My dog w/ MVD improved initially on Hill's L/D but then became intolerant to it, and almost anything else I fed her (home cooked or commercial food) so I had little choice but to seek a nutrition consult, pretty much out of desperation because my little dog was not thriving and I was worried for her future. Her bile acids and overall medical status improved greatly with home cooking.

About 3 months ago, however, she had a bacterial infection, and that hit her hard from the antibiotics and such. She was losing weight. In three months she dropped from 8 lbs to 6.5 lbs. We put her back on L/D to put some weight back on her and she is putting it on. She likes the L/D and so far she is tolerating it. There will come a time when she doesnt, and then I'll go back to her home cooked.

So my opinion on this is that home cooking is a great option. But, if commercial food is working, then I would not upset the apple cart. L/D is a good food for liver compromised dogs.

[Ellie May]

Yorkieluv, a member of YT who hasn't been here in awhile, has an extremely liver compromised dog (Miko). All dog food made him very, very sick. He does very well on homecooked. She can use the ingredients that work best fo rhim.

My dog, Ellie, has a compromised liver, pancreas issues, intestinal issues, malabsorption issues, and food allergies. Homecooking has worked somewhat. She really doesn't do well on any food. After a recipe was formulated for her, her bile acids did not really go down. I would not consider homecooking an answer to bringing bile acids into normal range.

I used to think that way too. You want to know you've done everything you could... But if something is working, esp. for a major medical issue, it probably isn't worth it to change.

I would stick with what is working. Wouldn't even attempt to changeit... You should be able to add a few green beans, some pieces of sweet potato, etc. in though.

[gaijingirl]

That's interesting that your MVD dog had her bile acid's go down. When we had Snickers's tested a couple of weeks ago they were still as high as before. All other bloodwork was normal...I think the only thing that was off was low cholesterol. The Dr. told me that it was normal for his bile acid's to remain high, having MVD and that they would probably always be that way.

What kind of bacterial infection did your dog have?

Originally Posted by 107barney

I home cook for all my dogs, including my dog with MVD.

My dog w/ MVD improved initially on Hill's L/D but then became intolerant to it, and almost anything else I fed her (home cooked or commercial food) so I had little choice but to seek a nutrition consult, pretty much out of desperation because my little dog was not thriving and I was worried for her future. Her bile acids and overall medical status improved greatly with home cooking.

About 3 months ago, however, she had a bacterial infection, and that hit her hard from the antibiotics and such. She was losing weight. In three months she dropped from 8 lbs to 6.5 lbs. We put her back on L/D to put some weight back on her and she is putting it on. She likes the L/D and so far she is tolerating it. There will come a time when she doesnt, and then I'll go back to her home cooked.

So my opinion on this is that home cooking is a great option. But, if commercial food is working, then I would not upset the apple cart. L/D is a good food for liver compromised dogs.

[gaijingirl]

Poor Ellie! I thought Snickers had a lot of problems, but sounds like you really have your hands full!

After we got the diagnosis of the clostridial overgrowth, it seemed like that had really been the thing that was causing the symptoms. The specialist basically said that his symptoms were not caused by MVD, but probably had exacerbated the digestive problems caused by the clostridial overgrowth. I'm not sure if the food added to him being sick before or not....I suppose it could have. We did try a lot of different things over several months and he'd just keep getting these episodes of fever, vomiting and diarrhea every couple of weeks which seems to have been the clostridial overgrowth. I'm not sure that we would have done the all the testing that lead to the discovery of MVD if he hadn't had all the chronic digestive problems. He wasn't really showing the typical signs of liver disease. Does that make sense? I'm not sure that I am explaining what I am trying to say very well...

So, while I wanting for a food that will keep him healthy today, which the l/d is doing, I'm also concerned about the food that will best keep him healthy for long-term and help him live longer and healthier than he might otherwise....why I'm thinking of home cooking.

You just hear so many stories of dogs that do really well on it....then you hear so many stories of dogs that live perfectly long and healthy lives on the most terrible commercial food ever. I wish there was a clear cut answer. It's hard enough to find a food that works for a healthy dog sometimes, but this whole sick dog thing makes it even more difficult to know what to do!

Originally Posted by Ellie May

Yorkieluv, a member of YT who hasn't been here in awhile, has an extremely liver compromised dog (Miko). All dog food made him very, very sick. He does very well on homecooked. She can use the ingredients that work best fo rhim.

My dog, Ellie, has a compromised liver, pancreas issues, intestinal issues, malabsorption issues, and food allergies. Homecooking has worked somewhat. She really doesn't do well on any food. After a recipe was formulated for her, her bile acids did not really go down. I would not consider homecooking an answer to bringing bile acids into normal range.

I used to think that way too. You want to know you've done everything you could... But if something is working, esp. for a major medical issue, it probably isn't worth it to change.

I would stick with what is working. Wouldn't even attempt to changeit... You should be able to add a few green beans, some pieces of sweet potato, etc. in though.

[Ellie May]

Yes, it makes sense. A compromised liver makes a compromised immune system more likely. Pups are going to be less able to fight bacteria. And while digestive upset can be related to liver problems, if it's just some MVD going on, there may be another problem causing the upset and setting the liver off.

Well, I have been here with wanting to know that I was doing best long term. I still think about it sometimes. But really, how do we know homecooking is truly best long term? Do we know that they live longer? What if we find out in a couple years that on average they live shorter lives? I mean, it's really an unpredictable thing. I think what is best is what the dog does well on.

there is no reason why you couldn't homecook under the direction of a board ertified veterinary nutritionist. If that's what you want for your pup, then it's perfectly acceptable. It's just that if I was in the same place right now and he was doing well with L/D (no or extremely limited vomiting/diarrhea/neuro symptoms), then I'd stick with what was working.

[107barney]

Originally Posted by gaijingirl

That's interesting that your MVD dog had her bile acid's go down. When we had Snickers's tested a couple of weeks ago they were still as high as before. All other bloodwork was normal...I think the only thing that was off was low cholesterol. The Dr. told me that it was normal for his bile acid's to remain high, having MVD and that they would probably always be that way.

What kind of bacterial infection did your dog have?

Yes my Daisy's bile acids were 93 preprandial and 107 postprandial when she was diagnosed with probable MVD at about age 6 and a half. She is going to be 11 this year. When she was diagnosed she was very ill. She has many problems in addition to MVD.

Anyway, she was put on the Hill's L/D and Marin and her numbers dropped significantly to the 30s.

We went to a home cooked diet two years ago designed by vet nutritionist Dr. Rebecca Remillard and we saw her bile acids go down to 13 pre and 3 post!

So tell your vet that YES it can happen and it was due mostly to her diet change because we are not that reliable with the Marin. Daisy's bile acids are checked twice a year and they have remained steady. Her entire liver profile is normal, which is amazing.

To answer your question, her infection was not related to her liver disease but I'm sure her ability to fight it was. She had a urinary tract infection which was affecting her kidney and the bacteria was E. coli. She did not clear the infection after a course of antibiotics and had to be on them for 6 weeks. That longer course of antibiotic therapy caused an overgrowth of enterococcus. All of this for no symptoms --- it had shown up on routine pre-surgical blood/urine testing.

My Daisy is a bull. She has beaten the odds so many times, she might as well be a cat with 9 lives.