LP advice - YorkieTalk.com Forums

boopster · 10-24-2010, 07:47 AM

Yesterday Tallulah went to the vet for another round of vaccinations. I asked him to examine her legs and note on her chart that she seemed fine. This would remove the waiting period on LP should she develop a problem later. I was shocked when he found that she has almost no notch where the tendon goes and both patellae slide pretty freely to either side. He did say the good news is that there don't seem to be any projections where the tendon can hang up.

Dr. Told me that this might never give her a problem but she could require surgery on both legs in the future. Which I know will not be covered by the insurance since it's been found now. Guess I should not have asked for the exam.

Dr. advised that I avoid letting her jump or play tug-of-war. Guess agility is out, too. Anything that puts stress on the hind legs.

I know that there are a lot of people in this group whose babies have LP issues. I would appreciate any advice you can share. I also wonder what the current cost of surgery is with an orthopedic specialist. I'd like to start setting aside something every month to be prepared.

DvlshAngel985 · 10-24-2010, 09:39 AM

You'll get lots of differing opinions and advice on what to do. Before I put in my two cents, I want to tell you to read everything first and then make a decision. Some people have surgery in mind from the very beginning, and others never take their baby in for it. I feel as though there is no right/wrong way to go about it.

Have you informed Tallulah's breeder of this finding? If I remember right, Tallulah is still a baby, and for her knee caps to be so free moving, my guess is the diagnosis is grade 3 or 4 LP. Am I right? From what I've read here, grades 3 and 4 are caused by bad genes, as compared to grade 1 or 2 which can be caused by a bad slip or fall. If she is as young as I think she is, the breeder should be made aware, if he/she didn't already know so he/she no longer breeds that breeding pair.

I have a baby with Grade 3/4 in both knees. My vets recommendation, surgery IMMEDIATELY. I went ahead and got 2 more opinions. The diagnosis was the same, but the recommendations were all different. After having had Kaji for a year, and really never seeing any signs of discomfort, I'm going to wait on surgery. He's 2 years old, runs, jumps, plays, and has never once favored either of his legs. He's a happy go lucky guy. I have read what discomfort grade 1 can cause to some of the YT babies, and I've been lucky enough never to experience that. I do keep a very close eye on his weight. If he gains half a pound more than his ideal weight, his knees pop in and out often. He is on glucosamine supplements, and is doing well. Except for currently his weight shot up because of what I was feeding him.

I'm waiting on rushing into surgery mostly because surgery has no guarantee. One of the other vets I went to go see told me that even with surgery, the knee can can slip out again. If Kaji was in immense pain, or if he even walked funny (I watch him walk A LOT) I would definitely be out searching for an orthopedic surgeon. But, he's fine. I'll save up money since no insurance will cover it anyway, and wait until my little man is no longer able to be his happy self before putting him through surgery.

DamSweet · 10-24-2010, 10:19 AM

Bridget was diagnosed with grade 2/3 in her knees. My vet said that unless it gets to the point that it is painful for her he does NOT recommend surgery. He did suggest that I get and keep her weight down (she's a bit more of a Porkie than a Yorkie). Bridget and Greta both are on a joint supplement as Greta also has a grade 1 (which I knew when I got her). If you were to see the girls play - you would never there were any problems at all. Bridget did have one episode after the inital one - she was racing down the hall and turned the corner too sharp. My vet lets me purchase a few doses of the anti-inflammatory to keep on hand just in case it happens when the office isn't opened. I have yet to use them.
It's a scarry thing to hear - when the vet told me that she had LP - I cried thinking she would be in pain and and never be able to play....boy was I wrong. I hope the outcome is the same for you and your baby.

Yorkiedaze · 10-24-2010, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boopster

Yesterday Tallulah went to the vet for another round of vaccinations. I asked him to examine her legs and note on her chart that she seemed fine. This would remove the waiting period on LP should she develop a problem later. I was shocked when he found that she has almost no notch where the tendon goes and both patellae slide pretty freely to either side. He did say the good news is that there don't seem to be any projections where the tendon can hang up.

Dr. Told me that this might never give her a problem but she could require surgery on both legs in the future. Which I know will not be covered by the insurance since it's been found now. Guess I should not have asked for the exam.

Dr. advised that I avoid letting her jump or play tug-of-war. Guess agility is out, too. Anything that puts stress on the hind legs.

I know that there are a lot of people in this group whose babies have LP issues. I would appreciate any advice you can share. I also wonder what the current cost of surgery is with an orthopedic specialist. I'd like to start setting aside something every month to be prepared.

First off don't get any operation unless she is not able to walk very well without limping or keeping the leg totally off the floor.
My Zada had the surgery done on both knees at once and she was not even limping. (mistake made by Dr. Bertram of Solvang who has since retired). Her knee cap groove was not even deepened during surgery. This was discovered when she went to the orthopedic surgeon to have a torn ligament repaired on her right knee. Her left knee is also slipping but he doesn't recommend surgery unless she's in pain........which is when they limp. My Azrael has had a grade 3 since five months old and she will be five years old Jan. 16th, without any problems with it.
If some day your girl needs surgery, I very, very highly recommend Dr. Bruecker. Kenneth Bruecker | Veterinary Medical And Surgical Group (VMSG)

Patti · 10-24-2010, 01:28 PM

Sorry to hear about Tallulah's LP. Pixie my almost 5 year old had a fall from the bed and a day later started falling over and not walking on her back left leg. I took her to the Er vet and it was a new vet. He diagnosed her with Grade 3/4 in the left and grade 2 in right and said she would need surgery. I was surprised because Pixie's vet had never mentioned LP and she had just had the fall. I didn't have xrays done because I wanted her tobe seen my my vet the next day. So when I got her home, with meds, the leg looked like it was just hanging there. I went back at midnight and got a different er vet, new also, and had the xrays done. He said the same thing LP that needed surgery. I took her to my vet and she agreed that her knee would not stay in the socket without surgery. So I took her to the Orthopedic surgeon and she confirmed she needed surgery. This same surgeon did Cali's liver biopsy and spay and consulted on my pom's anal hernia so I trusted her. So Pixie had the knee cap regrooved the bone cut and moved over and a stitch in her tendon and has done really well. That was in June. On the other hand, Cali my 5 1/2 year old has grade 4 LP in both knees and they are permanently out of the socket. She has no problems with it and does not seem to be in any discomfort. Since she has other health issues my vet and I decided to do a wait and see on her. My vet said she has seen dogs with grade 4 live to be 14 and never need surgery. So I really think it's best to do watchful waiting and should problems arise have an orthopedist check her out. Pixie's surgery was 2600.00 that didn't include er visits and regular vet visit. I have VPI insurance and they denied it as genetic. I hope Tallulah never has any problems with it. It's best to keep their weight down and limit jumping.

enchilila · 10-25-2010, 06:55 PM

Betty Boop has LP1/2 in her right hind leg. I took her to the vet for another reason and as I was leaving, I turned around and asked him to check her leg because she hurt it one night while running down the hallway. I was in the process of looking for pet insurance and didn't even think about him putting the diagnosis of LP in Boop's file. Then, I found out that I would be lucky to find a company that would ensure LP because they would look at it as being genetic. I'm just putting money aside each week in a "kitty" fund for medical expenses.

Betty Boop's LP doesn't seem to bother her at all. The vet recommended Glucosamine. I will not put her through surgery unless it is absolutely necessary. I've read a lot about it on this forum and have made an informed decision for myself.

I'm sorry Tallulah has LP. Try not to worry. At first, it was shocking to me and I felt like her little life was over, with no more playing or jumping. Heck, I can't keep her still! Nothing has slowed her down and her leg hasn't bothered her since being put on glucosamine. Before that, it slipped twice. It just has a way of popping back into place on its own. I'm always careful when I pick her, though, because I can feel the knee cap shifting a little.

Give your little beauty a hug from Betty Boop and me.

boopster · 10-25-2010, 07:39 PM

Well, I didn't panic because she doesn't show any symptoms. And i'd rather know now so i can be extra careful about possibly harmful activities. I told Janet at Yorkie Camp about it this morning when I dropped her off this morning. They currently have five Yorkies - all rescues -- and all with LP. The only one that has required surgery is a little boy who came to them overweight and she thinks if his weight had been controlled, he might have been fine.

So -- I will be keeping an eye on her, trying very hard to avoid jumping and other stress on her hind legs, setting aside a little every month in case surgery becomes necessary, and otherwise loving on her - she is a pure joy and developing into quite a little character.

diannenet · 10-25-2010, 07:57 PM

Toby was diagnosed with LP (Grade 3/4 in left rear leg and Grade 2 in right rear leg) two months ago as he started limping on his left rear leg. Vet did blood work, gave me Rimadyl and said if it doesn't get better he will need surgery. He weighed 8 lbs when we got him back in November and when he was diagnosed two months ago he weighed 11 lbs. Trying to keep him calm was a chore as he HATES a crate (probably from his puppy mill days.) I was worried sick (just ask Megansmomma and Ladymom, I drove them crazy with emails.). It was suggested I find an orthopedic surgeon and see what they say. So off I went to an ortho. She too agreed if it didn't get better he would need surgery. She put him on a glucosamine & chondritin supplement. That was about three weeks ago. I was told I won't notice a difference for at least a month or so with the supplements. Since he was diagnosed he no longer gets any treats except Himalayan chews and a few carrots now and then. He is down to almost 10 lbs and no longer limps and he's back to his normal, ornery self. He has learned to let mom "pick up" to go up a lot of stairs. If it's the doggy stairs to the bed I let him use them as there is only three of them and they are carpeted. Starting today I am cutting his Rimadyl to once a day instead of twice a day. If it gets to where his LP will affect his quality of life, I would do the surgery but if I can get and keep his weight down and monitor his running and playing (sometimes he's too darned fast), I'm hoping surgery becomes nothing more than a word in our vocabulary. Good luck and keep us posted.

Mom to Hot Rod · 10-25-2010, 08:32 PM

Sorrybthat your baby has this going. Hot Rod had lp surgery. His little leg was bowed out because his tendons was on the side and his knee was out. He was limping and would not walk. The vet is actually watching his other knee at the moment. He is not wanting to walk from time to time and his knee is easily popped out.

Maggie was diagnosed with lol grade 2 lp. The vet says that she is fine at the moment and she does not show any signs of being in any pain. Yay!
Best of luck to you. Hot Rod's surgery was $1960.00-??? if I remember correctly.

larryc46 · 10-26-2010, 10:23 AM

This is one of those things that everyone has an opinion about so I will give mine. I would only have one of my pets operated on (especially one so small) unless it was absolutely necessary and they were in pain. As diannenet learned from her Toby, weight can have a big impact on certain issues just like weight impacts humans with joint problems.

10-24-2010, 07:47 AM	#1
boopster Donating Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Southern California, USA Posts: 1,643 Blog Entries: 1	LP advice Yesterday Tallulah went to the vet for another round of vaccinations. I asked him to examine her legs and note on her chart that she seemed fine. This would remove the waiting period on LP should she develop a problem later. I was shocked when he found that she has almost no notch where the tendon goes and both patellae slide pretty freely to either side. He did say the good news is that there don't seem to be any projections where the tendon can hang up. Dr. Told me that this might never give her a problem but she could require surgery on both legs in the future. Which I know will not be covered by the insurance since it's been found now. Guess I should not have asked for the exam. Dr. advised that I avoid letting her jump or play tug-of-war. Guess agility is out, too. Anything that puts stress on the hind legs. I know that there are a lot of people in this group whose babies have LP issues. I would appreciate any advice you can share. I also wonder what the current cost of surgery is with an orthopedic specialist. I'd like to start setting aside something every month to be prepared.

10-24-2010, 09:39 AM	#2
DvlshAngel985 Donating YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Los Angeles, California, USA Posts: 12,693	You'll get lots of differing opinions and advice on what to do. Before I put in my two cents, I want to tell you to read everything first and then make a decision. Some people have surgery in mind from the very beginning, and others never take their baby in for it. I feel as though there is no right/wrong way to go about it. Have you informed Tallulah's breeder of this finding? If I remember right, Tallulah is still a baby, and for her knee caps to be so free moving, my guess is the diagnosis is grade 3 or 4 LP. Am I right? From what I've read here, grades 3 and 4 are caused by bad genes, as compared to grade 1 or 2 which can be caused by a bad slip or fall. If she is as young as I think she is, the breeder should be made aware, if he/she didn't already know so he/she no longer breeds that breeding pair. I have a baby with Grade 3/4 in both knees. My vets recommendation, surgery IMMEDIATELY. I went ahead and got 2 more opinions. The diagnosis was the same, but the recommendations were all different. After having had Kaji for a year, and really never seeing any signs of discomfort, I'm going to wait on surgery. He's 2 years old, runs, jumps, plays, and has never once favored either of his legs. He's a happy go lucky guy. I have read what discomfort grade 1 can cause to some of the YT babies, and I've been lucky enough never to experience that. I do keep a very close eye on his weight. If he gains half a pound more than his ideal weight, his knees pop in and out often. He is on glucosamine supplements, and is doing well. Except for currently his weight shot up because of what I was feeding him. I'm waiting on rushing into surgery mostly because surgery has no guarantee. One of the other vets I went to go see told me that even with surgery, the knee can can slip out again. If Kaji was in immense pain, or if he even walked funny (I watch him walk A LOT) I would definitely be out searching for an orthopedic surgeon. But, he's fine. I'll save up money since no insurance will cover it anyway, and wait until my little man is no longer able to be his happy self before putting him through surgery. __________________ Littlest JakJak We miss you Kaji

10-24-2010, 10:19 AM	#3
DamSweet Donating YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Erie, PA, USA Posts: 1,236 Blog Entries: 1	Bridget was diagnosed with grade 2/3 in her knees. My vet said that unless it gets to the point that it is painful for her he does NOT recommend surgery. He did suggest that I get and keep her weight down (she's a bit more of a Porkie than a Yorkie). Bridget and Greta both are on a joint supplement as Greta also has a grade 1 (which I knew when I got her). If you were to see the girls play - you would never there were any problems at all. Bridget did have one episode after the inital one - she was racing down the hall and turned the corner too sharp. My vet lets me purchase a few doses of the anti-inflammatory to keep on hand just in case it happens when the office isn't opened. I have yet to use them. It's a scarry thing to hear - when the vet told me that she had LP - I cried thinking she would be in pain and and never be able to play....boy was I wrong. I hope the outcome is the same for you and your baby. __________________ Proud member of the CrAzYcLuB Donna......owned by Bridget and Greta (and wouldn't have it any other way!)

10-24-2010, 01:28 PM	#5
Patti Donating YT 30K Club Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Illinois Posts: 35,509 Blog Entries: 6	Sorry to hear about Tallulah's LP. Pixie my almost 5 year old had a fall from the bed and a day later started falling over and not walking on her back left leg. I took her to the Er vet and it was a new vet. He diagnosed her with Grade 3/4 in the left and grade 2 in right and said she would need surgery. I was surprised because Pixie's vet had never mentioned LP and she had just had the fall. I didn't have xrays done because I wanted her tobe seen my my vet the next day. So when I got her home, with meds, the leg looked like it was just hanging there. I went back at midnight and got a different er vet, new also, and had the xrays done. He said the same thing LP that needed surgery. I took her to my vet and she agreed that her knee would not stay in the socket without surgery. So I took her to the Orthopedic surgeon and she confirmed she needed surgery. This same surgeon did Cali's liver biopsy and spay and consulted on my pom's anal hernia so I trusted her. So Pixie had the knee cap regrooved the bone cut and moved over and a stitch in her tendon and has done really well. That was in June. On the other hand, Cali my 5 1/2 year old has grade 4 LP in both knees and they are permanently out of the socket. She has no problems with it and does not seem to be in any discomfort. Since she has other health issues my vet and I decided to do a wait and see on her. My vet said she has seen dogs with grade 4 live to be 14 and never need surgery. So I really think it's best to do watchful waiting and should problems arise have an orthopedist check her out. Pixie's surgery was 2600.00 that didn't include er visits and regular vet visit. I have VPI insurance and they denied it as genetic. I hope Tallulah never has any problems with it. It's best to keep their weight down and limit jumping. __________________ Cali Pixie Roxie : RIP Nikki; RIP Maya;RIP my sweet Dixie girl 1/17/08 http://callipuppyscastle.bravehost.com/index.html

10-25-2010, 06:55 PM	#6
enchilila Donating YT 5000 Club Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Central Texas Posts: 9,688	Betty Boop has LP1/2 in her right hind leg. I took her to the vet for another reason and as I was leaving, I turned around and asked him to check her leg because she hurt it one night while running down the hallway. I was in the process of looking for pet insurance and didn't even think about him putting the diagnosis of LP in Boop's file. Then, I found out that I would be lucky to find a company that would ensure LP because they would look at it as being genetic. I'm just putting money aside each week in a "kitty" fund for medical expenses. Betty Boop's LP doesn't seem to bother her at all. The vet recommended Glucosamine. I will not put her through surgery unless it is absolutely necessary. I've read a lot about it on this forum and have made an informed decision for myself. I'm sorry Tallulah has LP. Try not to worry. At first, it was shocking to me and I felt like her little life was over, with no more playing or jumping. Heck, I can't keep her still! Nothing has slowed her down and her leg hasn't bothered her since being put on glucosamine. Before that, it slipped twice. It just has a way of popping back into place on its own. I'm always careful when I pick her, though, because I can feel the knee cap shifting a little. Give your little beauty a hug from Betty Boop and me. __________________ "Betty Boop" The light of my life & the joy of my living!

10-25-2010, 07:39 PM	#7
boopster Donating Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Southern California, USA Posts: 1,643 Blog Entries: 1	Well, I didn't panic because she doesn't show any symptoms. And i'd rather know now so i can be extra careful about possibly harmful activities. I told Janet at Yorkie Camp about it this morning when I dropped her off this morning. They currently have five Yorkies - all rescues -- and all with LP. The only one that has required surgery is a little boy who came to them overweight and she thinks if his weight had been controlled, he might have been fine. So -- I will be keeping an eye on her, trying very hard to avoid jumping and other stress on her hind legs, setting aside a little every month in case surgery becomes necessary, and otherwise loving on her - she is a pure joy and developing into quite a little character.

10-25-2010, 07:57 PM	#8
diannenet Donating YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 1,363	Toby was diagnosed with LP (Grade 3/4 in left rear leg and Grade 2 in right rear leg) two months ago as he started limping on his left rear leg. Vet did blood work, gave me Rimadyl and said if it doesn't get better he will need surgery. He weighed 8 lbs when we got him back in November and when he was diagnosed two months ago he weighed 11 lbs. Trying to keep him calm was a chore as he HATES a crate (probably from his puppy mill days.) I was worried sick (just ask Megansmomma and Ladymom, I drove them crazy with emails.). It was suggested I find an orthopedic surgeon and see what they say. So off I went to an ortho. She too agreed if it didn't get better he would need surgery. She put him on a glucosamine & chondritin supplement. That was about three weeks ago. I was told I won't notice a difference for at least a month or so with the supplements. Since he was diagnosed he no longer gets any treats except Himalayan chews and a few carrots now and then. He is down to almost 10 lbs and no longer limps and he's back to his normal, ornery self. He has learned to let mom "pick up" to go up a lot of stairs. If it's the doggy stairs to the bed I let him use them as there is only three of them and they are carpeted. Starting today I am cutting his Rimadyl to once a day instead of twice a day. If it gets to where his LP will affect his quality of life, I would do the surgery but if I can get and keep his weight down and monitor his running and playing (sometimes he's too darned fast), I'm hoping surgery becomes nothing more than a word in our vocabulary. Good luck and keep us posted. __________________ *Dianne Toby Speedy*

10-25-2010, 08:32 PM	#9
Mom to Hot Rod Donating YT 5000 Club Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: MD Posts: 10,908	Sorrybthat your baby has this going. Hot Rod had lp surgery. His little leg was bowed out because his tendons was on the side and his knee was out. He was limping and would not walk. The vet is actually watching his other knee at the moment. He is not wanting to walk from time to time and his knee is easily popped out. Maggie was diagnosed with lol grade 2 lp. The vet says that she is fine at the moment and she does not show any signs of being in any pain. Yay! Best of luck to you. Hot Rod's surgery was $1960.00-??? if I remember correctly. __________________ www.kissecollar.com Soft Cone Collars for Post-surgery and much more! 10% (non-food) - Discount code YT10

10-26-2010, 10:23 AM	#10
larryc46 YorkieTalk Newbie! Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Ks Posts: 6	This is one of those things that everyone has an opinion about so I will give mine. I would only have one of my pets operated on (especially one so small) unless it was absolutely necessary and they were in pain. As diannenet learned from her Toby, weight can have a big impact on certain issues just like weight impacts humans with joint problems.