Liver Shunt Testing

[laylaoh]

I'm thinking about buying a yorkie from a certain breeder. I asked several questions, one of which regarding whether or not the puppy has been tested for liver shunt. The breeder stated that I only needed to be worried about liver shunt when the dog is 4-6lbs. The breeder also said that you cannot test the puppy until they are at least 1 yrs old. The breeder did say that the puppy has a health certificate. I tried looking up info on when you should test your puppy for liver shunt, but haven't come up with much. So my question is, when should you test a puppy for liver shunt and is it true that I do not have to worry about liver shunt in dogs that are 10lbs and over?

Any helpful info is appreciated. Thanks in advance!

[Ellie May]

Welcome to YorkieTalk

I honestly would not go with that breeder because the info is not at all correct.
You can test whenever the pup is old enough to have blood drawn but it could be inconclusive before 4-6 months or so. Some breeders on YT would only test pups if there were major symptoms or after they are 6 months old because of the risk of doing a blood test on a small pup.

Any size Yorkie can have liver shunt and Yorkies are 36 times more likely to have one than all other breeds combined. If the parents have been tested and the lines are clear, some people wouldn't even worry about testing the pup. It is a good thing to do though.

[Yorkieluv]

Dr. Center recommends that all yorkies have a bile acid test at 18 weeks of age...A health certificate does not do anything for you as far as whether or not the dog has liver shunt...My yorkie is over 10 lbs and he does have liver shunts...

[Ladymom]

According to the University of Tennessee study, Yorkies were found to be thirty-six times more likely to have a liver shunt than all other breeds combined. Size is not the issue: genetics are.

Dr. Sharon Center, the developer of the bile acids test, recommends all Yorkie puppies be BAT tested. This is from page 22 of her seminar handout:

"2: The best approach to avoid "over diagnosis" is to test bile acids in young dogs of highly affected breeds (at 4 mths of age) while they are clinically healthy and before they are adopted into pet homes. Highly affected breeds include: Yorkshire Terrier, Cairn Terrier, Maltese, Tibetan Spaniels as well as many other "terrier" type breeds (Miniature Schnauzer, Lhasa Apso, Shih Tzu, Dachshund, Bichon Frise, Pekingese, Toy and Miniature Poodles, and Havanese and others). Proactive assessment of serum bile acids will limit the awkward circumstance imposed when an MVD dog, with minor health issues, is suddenly recognized to have abnormal bile acids by a pet owner's veterinarian. This circumstance can lead to unnecessary diagnostic confusion and unwarranted invasive tests such as liver biopsy and portovenography. How old dogs should be at he time of initial testing has not been established. Typically, abnormal bile acids DO NOT normalize as a dog ages ..... " (all emphasis added by Dr. Center)

Dr. Center has recently changed her recommendation from 16 weeks to 18 weeks as her continuing research has indicated the extra two weeks give the organs a little longer to develop and the test is more accurate.

It sounds like this breeder does not test her breeding dogs for liver disease and is uninformed about shunts in Yorkies. I would pass on this breeder.

Here are a couple of links for you from two of the top experts, both of which explain how common liver shunts are in Yorkies.

Hepatic Vascular Disorders - WSAVA 2006 Congress

Portosystemic Shunts FAQ

[laylaoh]

When I was talking to the breeder I did get an uneasy feeling. He was practically trying to push me into the "sale." Should always listen to your gut. Thank you all for the great information. Looks like it's back to searching the internet for other breeders.

[YodyGirl]

My vet said you can do the bile acid test anytime, but ask the breeder if the puppy is weened. My vets said if the pup is on solid foods you';; know right away about liver shunt, the liver cannot process the waste from the solid foods. If the pup is still nursing then liver shunt can happen when the come to you home. to be on the safer side I would request a test to be made for bile acid test, and speak with that paericular vet,, so get his phn# and ask him tonz of questions..

[Sashabear0430]

anyone know what the cheapest test is to indicate a liver shunt??

[Ladymom]

Originally Posted by Sashabear0430

anyone know what the cheapest test is to indicate a liver shunt??

You need to get a bile acids test. See the link I posted above.

They are very inexpensive, under $100.

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by Sashabear0430

anyone know what the cheapest test is to indicate a liver shunt??

the first test is pre and post bile acid which cost me $72 and then if they are over 100 the next test is scintigraphy which is about $390 here in california and that will determine if there is a shunt. The protein c test is a blood test that is being done as well not sure how much that is but i personally helped a dog that had 3 shunts and the protein c test came up negative so not real sure how accurate that one is after experiencing that

If pre and post below 100 most likely mvd which is what my yorkie dee dee has - she had 3 bile acids over the course of a year and first was 73 second 56 and third on low protein diet 26 these are all the post numbers her pre were all exactly the same 3

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by laylaoh

I'm thinking about buying a yorkie from a certain breeder. I asked several questions, one of which regarding whether or not the puppy has been tested for liver shunt. The breeder stated that I only needed to be worried about liver shunt when the dog is 4-6lbs. The breeder also said that you cannot test the puppy until they are at least 1 yrs old. The breeder did say that the puppy has a health certificate. I tried looking up info on when you should test your puppy for liver shunt, but haven't come up with much. So my question is, when should you test a puppy for liver shunt and is it true that I do not have to worry about liver shunt in dogs that are 10lbs and over?

Any helpful info is appreciated. Thanks in advance!

it is true usually they have stunted growth BUT not always as i helped again that yorkie i just posted about and he was 7lbs and had 3 shunts and no symptoms other than bladder stones. If i were to get a yorkie again i would make sure the mom and dad were bile acid tested and the puppy as well before i came home with it as the health guarantee means nothing after you take that yorkie home and bond with it then no way are you going to give it back if the dog is sick as you are emotional attached and soon to be very financially attached. Yorkies are 38% more likely to have shunts so i would want this ruled out or at least as much as you can as there still is no guarantee 100% no health issues but if you can rule out as much as you can before becoming emotionally attached i would do it. I would think a responsible breeder would test the parents before breeding to try there best not to throw a shunt pup even though they still can and why the pup needs to be tested as well - trust me having dealt for 5 years with an unhealthy yorkie due to poor immune system as breeder said she was an accident and i did not know what that meant and still got her it is very costly and not fun pay attention to the red flags i didn't and sorry i didn't. Also be careful of inbreeding as that yields poor immune systems which leads to allergies, hypothyroid, demodex mange, etc. Review the papers carefully and ask if inbreeding to the breeder. Many do it but having one that is inbred I know now it is horrible to the immune system as the first comment the vet said to me about dee dee was whoa a little inbreeding here SO now i know what that means a POOR IMMUNE SYSTEM. She is hypothyroid and has severe allergies and i have spent over 8k in seeing dermatologists, specialists, holistic you name it to keep her comfortable. I think the accident was she was inbred accidently but i never questioned the breeder what she meant by she was an accident and since she was akc i thought I was doing better as my first yorkie was a puppy mill pet store pup as i had no clue about all this stuff until after my boy yorkie got pancreatitis and i joined all these dog groups and wow was i enlightened. You learn alot you never knew you would when you get a sick pup so try to avoid it all cost if you can

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by laylaoh

When I was talking to the breeder I did get an uneasy feeling. He was practically trying to push me into the "sale." Should always listen to your gut. Thank you all for the great information. Looks like it's back to searching the internet for other breeders.

you might be best to check with dog show breeders, yorshire terrier club and even your local vet who knows of good breeders as i wish i would have asked my vet as there is an excellent breeder who shows and her yorkies are healthy and beautiful and i wish i would have known better so ask around and try to be careful on the internet it is better by referral from someone who has a yorkie from the breeder. Price does not always guarantee either as i have friends that paid 3k for show yorkies that had liver shunts so make sure to do your homework like you are doing as that is great as i wish i did what you are doing ahead of time as that is the best way to get a dog is to educate yourself first and many of us are baptised by fire

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by Sashabear0430

anyone know what the cheapest test is to indicate a liver shunt??

i see you are in california and if you are near garden grove then i would have dr jean dodds at www.hemopet.com do the bile acid testing as she has studied blood work for 40 years and knows her stuff and that is who does all our blood work and i think you are close to her - she is a non profit so she does not charge high prices like vets do