Alkaline pH - YorkieTalk.com Forums

Rockdiva · 01-10-2009, 12:34 PM

I am looking for anyone who has some experience with this, as I am not finding much info online. Shortly after Wookies exploratory surgery about 3 months ago, I noticed he was peeing a lot and drinking a lot. Took him to do a urinalysis and he had a few struvite crystals in his urine, but no bacteria and his urine was very concentrated (which they said was a good sign that his kidneys were doing what they were suposed to). Plus, he had tons of blood work and tests done when he was going through his surgery, so I knew his organs and such were working fine. His pH was a little alkaline though. So he was put on antibiotics for 10 days and then we went back. Everything was clear, no crystals, still no bacteria and urine normal (not concentrated). But he still had a alkaline ph in his urine. Wondering if it could possibly be our well water, we put him on distilled water for a month, then took him back this week to test again. Everything still clear and looking good but the ph still an 8! The vet said that may be something that is just 'Wookies normal' for him. She said should just probably do an urinalysis about every 6 months to keep an eye on it and to also keep an eye on him at home for any indications of a problem forming. She said she doesn't like doing things to acidify the urine because a lot of times you will over acidify by doing that and acidic urine causes worse problems than alkaline (evidently the stones caused by that have to be surgically removed). So I am kinda at a loss. The only info that I find online is the basic stuff about the crystals forming and such. Wondering if it could be diet related or what. He eats a combination of kibble and homemade diet. The kibble is Innova Evo (about 1/2 cup a day) and I make small patties (about the size of a silver dollar) that he gets poached each night mixed with whatever (if any) kibble he didn't eat in the morning. The patty mixture is made of 1/3 lb 98% lean ground beef, 1 chicken breast ground up, broccoli, carrots, squash, egg, rosemary, parsley, apple, olive oil, and then an equal to all that amount of cooked long grain brown rice. I mix it all then make into the little patties, freeze and poach one each night. I also try to get organic whenever I can. I have been really pleased with this diet (and he seems to be too) so I really don't want to change it unless it is what is hurting him.

Any one have any thoughts or experience with this??? Thanks!!!!!

Rockdiva · 01-12-2009, 11:29 AM

Anyone?????

Wylie's Mom · 01-12-2009, 12:26 PM

If you're homecooking for half (+) his meals, are balancing the cal-phos ratio and the rest of the RDAs? If not, this could throw him way out of balance.

bellasmomok · 01-12-2009, 01:20 PM

^^^ Also, veggies tend to make urine more alkaline. Bella had a UTI after her spay (which her vet thinks may have been caused by her tiny bladder getting bruised during the procedure), and at that time her urine pH was acidic--6.5. She went on antibiotics and then we repeated the urinalysis only to find the pH was 8.5 (no bacteria or crystals either time)! I actually have a nutritionist who has balanced Bella's diet for me and around the time she went on the antibiotics I asked him if I could add veggies to her diet, which he said was fine. After the last urinalysis, though, I took them back out because of the pH change but also because it had changed her stools, and not for the better! I really need to test her pH again to check and see what it's like now, but everything else is good. I'm wondering if it's the broccoli in your little one's diet that's possibly causing the change?? Also, if what you're homecooking is more than 1/4, I'd say, of his diet, you may want to consider balancing it. You may need to add a multivitamin or something like that to be sure he's getting all the nutrients he needs.

Rockdiva · 01-12-2009, 03:51 PM

I'd say his homemade patties are about a quarter of the food he eats a day. I was wondering that about the veggies. Do you think it could be just the broccoli or the other veggies as well? And where do you get your pH strips to check it yourself? I have not been able to find them anywhere. I would like to try changing his patties a bit and see what that does without having to go pay $90 at the vet every time I want to check his pH. How long did it take for you to change the pH of your dog? As for a multivitamin, my old vet (that I don't see anymore) has had him on the Lickables Supercharger since he was little. My hollistic vet (that I see once a year because his practice is so far away from me) said that I can finish out what I have of it, then not use it anymore because it has way to much sugar and calories that he doesn't need. He suggested I switch to Vim and Vigor, so I am about to do that as well.

Rockdiva · 01-12-2009, 03:53 PM

I'd say his homemade patties are about a quarter of the food he eats a day. I was wondering that about the veggies. Do you think it could be just the broccoli or the other veggies as well? And where do you get your pH strips to check it yourself? I have not been able to find them anywhere. I would like to try changing his patties a bit and see what that does without having to go pay $90 at the vet every time I want to check his pH. How long did it take for you to change the pH of your dog? As for a multivitamin, my old vet (that I don't see anymore) has had him on the Lickables Supercharger since he was little. My hollistic vet (that I see once a year because his practice is so far away from me) said that I can finish out what I have of it, then not use it anymore because it has way to much sugar and calories that he doesn't need. He suggested I switch to Vim and Vigor, so I am about to do that as well.

bellasmomok · 01-12-2009, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockdiva

I'd say his homemade patties are about a quarter of the food he eats a day. I was wondering that about the veggies. Do you think it could be just the broccoli or the other veggies as well? And where do you get your pH strips to check it yourself? I have not been able to find them anywhere. I would like to try changing his patties a bit and see what that does without having to go pay $90 at the vet every time I want to check his pH. How long did it take for you to change the pH of your dog?

Here is a list of foods that acidy/alkalize (you can do a search for other lists too):
http://mysite.verizon.net/jfrogge/ar...se%20chart.pdf

From that, it looks like the broccoli and the squash are in the alkalizing category (I can't remember what else is in the patty?) I think I'd try making a week's worth of patties without the veggies and then testing the pH again after the week to see if that was what was causing the pH change. (Note: my nutritionist suggested skipping the veggies to see if that was it, but he said he honestly didn't see a problem with her pH being alkaline if that was why because struvite crystals are much less common than urate (?) ones....although if yours has already had struvites, it may just be better to skip them altogether??)

I, like you, can't afford to have Bella's urine pH tested all the time and also, like you, couldn't find any pH strips. I called every pharmacy in town, then went to Hobby Lobby and bought the tiny strip they had for like $4 (which didn't even work, by the way!), so I just found them online and ordered those....here:
pH Test Strips - pHion pH Stix - Litmus Paper Strips

(I liked these because they have a wider range.) I just got them in so I haven't used them on her yet, but I tested them out on me. They seem just fine. I really need to try to catch some urine soon and test her too.

I hope that helps you

Rockdiva · 01-13-2009, 05:09 AM

OH, thanks so much for that link!!! I have been running around like crazy looking for them! I will definitely get some and I am going to try that, making his patties with no veggies. This is so weird because I thought veggies were good for him. I have had many people (vets and people in the industry) tell me my patties were really good for him. Guess is varies from dog to dog. My new regular vet said the same thing as your nutritionist, that she is ok with him having an alkaline ph rather than acidic as long as we keep an eye on it to make sure more crystals or stones form. Its me that is not comfortable with that, I want him to be normal, lessen the chances of something happening anyway I can! Thank you so much for your help, you don't know how much I appreciate it!!!

bellasmomok · 01-13-2009, 06:48 AM

^^^ You're welcome! Glad I can share my experience to help someone else! I know lots and lots of people that give their dogs veggies and seem to do just fine with them, but as you said, yours has already had struvite crystals once, so why take the chance. With Bella, I think I'm just gonna leave the veggies out of her daily stuff (since it really messed with her stools), but she enjoys eating veggies when I steam them for our dinner, so I still give her a few now and then. I think it's cute to see her eating her vegetables! At first when she ate veggies I thought maybe she was one of those that would just eat whatever I handed to her simply because I was hand feeding her, but now I know that's soooo not the case!!!

Wylie's Mom · 01-13-2009, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockdiva

I'd say his homemade patties are about a quarter of the food he eats a day.

Just fyi, since his homemade food constitutes 25% of his diet, you have to re-balance the cal-phos ratio and other supplements or his health may be at risk. I don't mean to scare you, but it really is essential.

Rockdiva · 01-13-2009, 11:08 AM

How do you do that? I have been told that since I am giving him the Innova Evo for the majority of his diet that he is getting what he needs. What do I need to do?

Ellie May · 01-13-2009, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockdiva

How do you do that? I have been told that since I am giving him the Innova Evo for the majority of his diet that he is getting what he needs. What do I need to do?

You can either reduce the homecooked portion to "no more than" 15-20% of the diet, consult a nutritionist or find a recipe that meets AAFCO guidelines.

Ellie May · 01-13-2009, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ellie May

You can either reduce the homecooked portion to "no more than" 15-20% of the diet, consult a nutritionist or find a recipe that meets AAFCO guidelines.

ETA: Make that "no more than" 10%.

Wylie's Mom · 01-13-2009, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ellie May

ETA: Make that "no more than" 10%.

Oh! Have recommendations regarding % until re-balance changed recently? Good to know, if so.

Ellie May · 01-13-2009, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

Oh! Have recommendations regarding % until re-balance changed recently? Good to know, if so.

Not sure.
I just can't seem to keep up with everything.
I "thought" that I had read on Ellie's nutritionist's site that it said 15-20% but I just looked again and it says that no more than 10% should be from human food calories or it may be thrown off balance.

01-10-2009, 12:34 PM	#1
Rockdiva YT Addict Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Fort Worth, TX, US Posts: 254	Alkaline pH I am looking for anyone who has some experience with this, as I am not finding much info online. Shortly after Wookies exploratory surgery about 3 months ago, I noticed he was peeing a lot and drinking a lot. Took him to do a urinalysis and he had a few struvite crystals in his urine, but no bacteria and his urine was very concentrated (which they said was a good sign that his kidneys were doing what they were suposed to). Plus, he had tons of blood work and tests done when he was going through his surgery, so I knew his organs and such were working fine. His pH was a little alkaline though. So he was put on antibiotics for 10 days and then we went back. Everything was clear, no crystals, still no bacteria and urine normal (not concentrated). But he still had a alkaline ph in his urine. Wondering if it could possibly be our well water, we put him on distilled water for a month, then took him back this week to test again. Everything still clear and looking good but the ph still an 8! The vet said that may be something that is just 'Wookies normal' for him. She said should just probably do an urinalysis about every 6 months to keep an eye on it and to also keep an eye on him at home for any indications of a problem forming. She said she doesn't like doing things to acidify the urine because a lot of times you will over acidify by doing that and acidic urine causes worse problems than alkaline (evidently the stones caused by that have to be surgically removed). So I am kinda at a loss. The only info that I find online is the basic stuff about the crystals forming and such. Wondering if it could be diet related or what. He eats a combination of kibble and homemade diet. The kibble is Innova Evo (about 1/2 cup a day) and I make small patties (about the size of a silver dollar) that he gets poached each night mixed with whatever (if any) kibble he didn't eat in the morning. The patty mixture is made of 1/3 lb 98% lean ground beef, 1 chicken breast ground up, broccoli, carrots, squash, egg, rosemary, parsley, apple, olive oil, and then an equal to all that amount of cooked long grain brown rice. I mix it all then make into the little patties, freeze and poach one each night. I also try to get organic whenever I can. I have been really pleased with this diet (and he seems to be too) so I really don't want to change it unless it is what is hurting him. Any one have any thoughts or experience with this??? Thanks!!!!!

01-12-2009, 12:26 PM	#3
Wylie's Mom Furbutts = LOVE Donating Member Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 35,889 Blog Entries: 2	If you're homecooking for half (+) his meals, are balancing the cal-phos ratio and the rest of the RDAs? If not, this could throw him way out of balance. __________________ ~ A friend told me I was delusional. I nearly fell off my unicorn. ~ °¨¨¨°ºOº°¨¨¨° Ann \| Pfeiffer \| Marcel Verdel Purcell \| Wylie \| Artie °¨¨¨°ºOº°¨¨¨°

01-12-2009, 01:20 PM	#4
bellasmomok ♥ love my girls!! ♥ Donating Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: OKC area Posts: 1,140 Blog Entries: 1	^^^ Also, veggies tend to make urine more alkaline. Bella had a UTI after her spay (which her vet thinks may have been caused by her tiny bladder getting bruised during the procedure), and at that time her urine pH was acidic--6.5. She went on antibiotics and then we repeated the urinalysis only to find the pH was 8.5 (no bacteria or crystals either time)! I actually have a nutritionist who has balanced Bella's diet for me and around the time she went on the antibiotics I asked him if I could add veggies to her diet, which he said was fine. After the last urinalysis, though, I took them back out because of the pH change but also because it had changed her stools, and not for the better! I really need to test her pH again to check and see what it's like now, but everything else is good. I'm wondering if it's the broccoli in your little one's diet that's possibly causing the change?? Also, if what you're homecooking is more than 1/4, I'd say, of his diet, you may want to consider balancing it. You may need to add a multivitamin or something like that to be sure he's getting all the nutrients he needs. __________________ Tara Bella's & Maya's mommy

01-13-2009, 06:48 AM	#9
bellasmomok ♥ love my girls!! ♥ Donating Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: OKC area Posts: 1,140 Blog Entries: 1	^^^ You're welcome! Glad I can share my experience to help someone else! I know lots and lots of people that give their dogs veggies and seem to do just fine with them, but as you said, yours has already had struvite crystals once, so why take the chance. With Bella, I think I'm just gonna leave the veggies out of her daily stuff (since it really messed with her stools), but she enjoys eating veggies when I steam them for our dinner, so I still give her a few now and then. I think it's cute to see her eating her vegetables! At first when she ate veggies I thought maybe she was one of those that would just eat whatever I handed to her simply because I was hand feeding her, but now I know that's soooo not the case!!! __________________ Tara Bella's & Maya's mommy

01-12-2009, 11:29 AM	#2
Rockdiva YT Addict Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Fort Worth, TX, US Posts: 254	Anyone?????

01-12-2009, 03:51 PM	#5
Rockdiva YT Addict Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Fort Worth, TX, US Posts: 254	I'd say his homemade patties are about a quarter of the food he eats a day. I was wondering that about the veggies. Do you think it could be just the broccoli or the other veggies as well? And where do you get your pH strips to check it yourself? I have not been able to find them anywhere. I would like to try changing his patties a bit and see what that does without having to go pay $90 at the vet every time I want to check his pH. How long did it take for you to change the pH of your dog? As for a multivitamin, my old vet (that I don't see anymore) has had him on the Lickables Supercharger since he was little. My hollistic vet (that I see once a year because his practice is so far away from me) said that I can finish out what I have of it, then not use it anymore because it has way to much sugar and calories that he doesn't need. He suggested I switch to Vim and Vigor, so I am about to do that as well.

01-12-2009, 03:53 PM	#6
Rockdiva YT Addict Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Fort Worth, TX, US Posts: 254	I'd say his homemade patties are about a quarter of the food he eats a day. I was wondering that about the veggies. Do you think it could be just the broccoli or the other veggies as well? And where do you get your pH strips to check it yourself? I have not been able to find them anywhere. I would like to try changing his patties a bit and see what that does without having to go pay $90 at the vet every time I want to check his pH. How long did it take for you to change the pH of your dog? As for a multivitamin, my old vet (that I don't see anymore) has had him on the Lickables Supercharger since he was little. My hollistic vet (that I see once a year because his practice is so far away from me) said that I can finish out what I have of it, then not use it anymore because it has way to much sugar and calories that he doesn't need. He suggested I switch to Vim and Vigor, so I am about to do that as well.

01-13-2009, 05:09 AM	#8
Rockdiva YT Addict Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Fort Worth, TX, US Posts: 254	OH, thanks so much for that link!!! I have been running around like crazy looking for them! I will definitely get some and I am going to try that, making his patties with no veggies. This is so weird because I thought veggies were good for him. I have had many people (vets and people in the industry) tell me my patties were really good for him. Guess is varies from dog to dog. My new regular vet said the same thing as your nutritionist, that she is ok with him having an alkaline ph rather than acidic as long as we keep an eye on it to make sure more crystals or stones form. Its me that is not comfortable with that, I want him to be normal, lessen the chances of something happening anyway I can! Thank you so much for your help, you don't know how much I appreciate it!!!

01-13-2009, 11:08 AM	#11
Rockdiva YT Addict Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Fort Worth, TX, US Posts: 254	How do you do that? I have been told that since I am giving him the Innova Evo for the majority of his diet that he is getting what he needs. What do I need to do?