Frostbitten areas inside ear?

[Jenna AK]

After taking what I thought was an excessive amount of care to be sure Jenna would not be outdoors too long in snowy weather (we've seen the last few weeks in Fairbanks go from the 30's above to almost 0 now), I think she must've gotten some snow in her right ear that I did not notice about a week ago, and so therefore I didn't clear it out with her Epi-Otic. For the last week I've been putting two to four drops of mometamax (her last script bottle which was given back in June) in her ear as per her doc's directions. She'd done a swab and couldn't find any bacteria, but I'd just cleaned the ear that morning, so maybe that was why. The eardrum was intact according to her.
Anyway, hubby made an ear cozy out of an old tube sock and it works to keep any further snow out of her ears (she looks like an old bag lady with it on, so pitiful!) and I pack it with a little cotton ball to help insulate the inside of the flap...but every time I have to take her out to potty, that ear gets worse.
I'm going back in tomorrow afternoon to the vet to see if something else can be done, but has anyone had experience with this? alaskayorkie, perhaps? I see a few blistered areas and spots of redness that extend around the little folds in her ear flap and into the canal (I can't get anything in there, the Epi-Otic had her screaming Monday, which was why I took her in the first time) and if I do the gunk comes out brown but not black, pretty normal. There's been some infinitesimal bleeding, but not since the mometamax. But the spots that are red seem to be getting worse and are even showing up in some new places today. If I didn't know better, I'd almost say the ear is actually drying out too much? But no, it has to be ice burn.
Plus there's a heck of a large (for a Yorkie) vein or artery showing in there now. I don't know if it's related.
How long will it take her ear to heal? And while I'm trying to get her to use a puppy pad instead of going outside, (she refuses and looks at me like I'm out of my mind for wanting her to put her 'stuff' in the mud closet!) she does really well if it's not bitter cold out and I don't want to lose her house training...but that ear really bothers me.
We only go out for about 15 minutes max during the warmer part of the day, and only about 5 minutes in the evening. This is enough for her to do all her business...but since the ear is hurt, I'm wondering what is going to freeze next??

[manolos mom]

Wow, I hope someone that lives in a cold area responds. You might send alaskayorkie a PM. He has a couple of Yorkies and lives in Alaska.

[alaskayorkie]

Hi Jenna, unfortunately I have no clue. Mine have never had any symptoms like that. I would guess chapped or an old frostbite injury that's sensitive too the cold, but that's only a wild guess.

You'd think your vet would have seen that, though.

Sorry, I'll poke around the Web and see if I can find anything. Please let me know how it goes! Any chance you can contact previous owner or their vet to see if it's something they've dealt with in past?

[Jenna AK]

Sadly, no. Jenna was a rescue dog and the lady we got her from blatantly lied to us about her in many respects. We think because this woman had so many dogs, Jenna got the short end of the stick. She's the one who kept Jenna in the cab of her truck in the winter because she claimed she fought with another dog in the house.
I don't really think I'll get anything more from her.

And yeah, I was hoping this vet would do a little better...I am certain it's frostbite, but this is a newer lady, not my usual person (who is unavailable anymore) and she seems a little clueless...for lack of a better word.
I'm just hoping I can grab the elbow of one of the other docs while I'm there and have him look at her between appointments...since he's seen her before and treated her for her infection in June. But since the ear is worse, I didn't want to have to wait for his schedule to open up.

[alaskayorkie]

Ugh. I'm sure you know more about frostbite than I do. Thankfully, I've never experienced it. I Googled around a bit but didn't find anything that said much beyond what you've already noticed. Here's one link I found, but it's pretty basic. Says ears are definitely at risk.

Oh, and sorry for calling you Jenna!

Frostbite on Dogs

[ladyjane]

Yeast infections can develop symptoms like you are describing. I have seen dogs' ears get very, very irritated from them. If there is a brown discharge as you described, that is often from a yeast infection. That is what Mometamax is used for. I had a pup get like that and it happened very quickly....I had never seen a yeast infection get to be that bad. His little ear was very inflammed, and bleeding. My vet prescribed the Mometamax and advised me not to clean the ear for a few days. She said the more you clean them, the more irritated they get. After 4 or 5 days it did calm down and then I was able to clean it.
Not saying it is not frostbite....could very well be. Only telling you about my experience with a nasty yeast infection.

[Jenna AK]

ladyjane, thank you very much for this info. I was going in this direction tonight as I realized that 1) my vet is not helping and 2) I may be the cause of this all along...although I don't see how it's happened to just one ear. But some more things are happening that are pointing me at what she's eating:
Firstly, I think I am cleaning the ear too much. But mostly to keep it dry. I will stop for now, unless it really gets nasty in there.
Secondly, have any of you had experience with CET oral maintenance chews? Apparently these have yeast in them, and I think (as much as Jenna loves to chew them and they're supposed to be good for her teeth, which are terrible) we're going to have to stop using them. The company seems to have switched formulas in these recently, because Jenna would not eat the newest bag we got about a month ago at first. Now she can't get enough of the darned things and carries them around in her mouth and when I have one in my hand she's becoming snarky about getting it from me, instead of gently playing with it like she used to. I try to keep her to one a day, but still...I think this may have built up in her system and caused the ear problem (which could've still been exacerbated by the snow, but who knows at this point?)
There's not much discharge/ear wax today at all. The doc tells me she has 'alleriges' and insists I have to put her on a special diet. Can you guess which one?
These people are Hills fanatics. So was my last vet. This company must have a heck of a monopoly going here. I'm thinking the only reason now that Jenna isn't covered in sores is that I rinse her with apple cider vinegar after her baths. But lately she's getting stinky between her usual bathing times, and this, plus excessive eye discharge mostly on the right side and some tenderness in the belly area...oh yeah...it's beginning to add up.
Her diet consists of Dick Van Patten's Natural Balance canned food varieties (the most recent that she loves is the bison/sweet potato, but I may have to keep that one from her) and Royal Canin YT 28 dry. She gets the moist in the morning and dry at night. It is not free fed, she gets very possessive of her food so I only give what she can eat immediately. The cats tend to try to snake it and I don't need a cat/yorkie fight at 3 AM because her crunchies have been hanging around and she decides to have a midnight snack.

Any thoughts and ideas would be most welcome. I know I can't treat her ears with vinegar while they're raw and irritated, but perhaps in future? Also, is Epi-Otic too strong for the infected ear? How do I keep it dry? Plus the doc gave me animax/panalog ointment to try instead of the mometamax for a few days, then I'm to call her again...which I may just not. I can see from what I've reasearched tonight that the steroidal method may be useless.

Uh-oh...and here's another symptom...for some reason she just dry heaved a bit lying next to me on my chair....I'm thinking her tummy is more upset than I realized, because this has also been going on for about the last week or so. Forgot to tell the doc that though.

Okay...I've rambled on enough. Any help would be most appreciated! Thank you all so much!

[ladyjane]

Yes, vets recommend Hill's, but honestly it is not the worst food out there no matter what you hear. I know lots would disagree with me on that. Hill's spends a lot of money on research and I have used their RX foods for certain conditions. I have a pup on Ultra ZD and he is thriving on it.

I don't advise people on diets and don't consider myself anywhere near an expert on foods. I feed my pups Castor and Pollux and it works well for the whole crew that do not require RX diets. Here is a link with information about it:
Natural ULTRAMIX Adult Canine Formula - Castor & Pollux Pet Works

As for the ear, I honestly would listen to the vet! Yes, allergies do cause ear infections in dogs.

As for keeping the ear dry, when you are using the ear meds, it will be greasy. That is ok! She needs that medicine to clear this up! Skip the ear cleaner for now and put in the meds that the vet suggested. I have a feeling that in two or three days she will start to clear up!

Good luck!

[lillymae]

Epi Otic comes in two diff formulas alcahol based and Non-alcahol based. Many people do not know this, I personally do not like the alcahol based for the fact that if you are dealing with yeast the alcahol kills more good bacteria and allows the yeast to take over. Also alcohol can be very irritating to already irritated skin.

[Jenna AK]

Thanks lillymae, I did not know this! 0_o I'll have to check on that. We may go back to see a different vet on Friday. I couldn't put the animax (panadol) in her ears yesterday, she shook her head so violently I thought it would snap off at the neck. She didn't even want me touching her.
So I called them back up and arranged to see the doc who'd taken care of her other ear infection back in May. Today, she seems to be doing a bit better, but you can tell she's still uncomfortable. My poor baby!
And today, it was so cold for her outside I think she did both potties at the same time, then sat down and refused to go another step till I brought her back inside. Alaska is not a good place for these little dogs.

[ladyjane]

Poor baby. I hope this infection clears up soon.