Liver Shunt Cellophane Band Method? - YorkieTalk.com Forums

cyndi03 · 05-28-2008, 08:36 AM

Well I had a consult apt with our surgeon earlier this week for the spay & liver biopsy. He also went over the procedure should there be a shunt & he would fix it while he's in there. He mentioned that he uses the cellophane band for shunts. I asked why not the Ameroid ring & he mentioned that they kink sometimes so he just uses the cellophane band method. I've read that the Ameroid constrictor is the best - is this correct or are both fine? Has anyone had the cellophane band used with success?
Thanks!

Ellie May · 05-28-2008, 09:34 AM

Hmm, hopefully Yorkieluv sees this.
I really don't know.

I thought the constrictor closed it off slowly and it was the ONLY right way.
How many ls surgeries has this vet done and what is his success rate?

Taking a liver biopsy, even when the dog is already open from a spay, is slowly become outdated. The procedure can be dangerous and isn't necessarily necessary. That's why the Protein C test is recommended. I'm not saying don't do it but if I had to do it over again I may have skipped Ellie's.

cvasquez · 05-28-2008, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyndi03

Well I had a consult apt with our surgeon earlier this week for the spay & liver biopsy. He also went over the procedure should there be a shunt & he would fix it while he's in there. He mentioned that he uses the cellophane band for shunts. I asked why not the Ameroid ring & he mentioned that they kink sometimes so he just uses the cellophane band method. I've read that the Ameroid constrictor is the best - is this correct or are both fine? Has anyone had the cellophane band used with success?
Thanks!

Cyndi-
That's a good question. I am waiting to consult a surgeon for Paisley's liver shunt surgery and would like to know the answer as well.

I wish Lulu the best!

Yorkieluv · 05-28-2008, 11:55 AM

In my opinion, the ameroid constrictor is much safer than the cellophane band...The AC closes the shunt off slowly to avoid portal hypertension which can be dangerous...The increase in blood flow can cause serious complications...Or it's possible that if the pressure is too high due to the shunt being closed off completely too quickly, it can cause more shunting...AC should be used because it has better success rates as far as I know....This is just my personal opinion. University of Tennessee's website has a lot of information on this.

As far as the biopsy goes, JMHO I think it's a good idea for them to go ahead and take a biopsy at the time of spay because this is the only way to 100% confirm that your baby has MVD. If they're already going in, then I don't see a reason why not to go ahead and do this. Now, if they're opening her up ONLY for a biopsy, then I would say to possibly reconsider and do a Protein C test instead.
A Protein C test will not for sure say if she has MVD or liver shunt, it will just point you in the direction of likely to be liver shunt or likely to be MVD.

cyndi03 · 05-28-2008, 12:17 PM

Thanks for your responses!!

It's a board certified surgeon & suppose to be one of the best in the city. From talking to him he sounded like he has done many liver shunts with success but then again I never got an exact # which I will ask once I compile all of my new questions for him. I have to sign off on letting him fix the shunt should there be one so I want to make sure he is using the correct method. Our specialist doesn't think it's a shunt so she suggests that if I'm doing the spay then we should do the liver biopsy at the same time so she only has to go under once & we can then see what the problem is with the liver as her bile acids results are high & she has low glucose.

I do know that the cellophane band takes about 4-5 weeks before closing as well but the Ameroid Constrictor just has such positive feedback & really not much info on the Cellophane band....

Maybe I should just do the protein C test & then I wouldn't have to make the decision on the shunt method cause it may come back as she doesn't have a shunt - they never heard of a protein C test here in Canada until I showed them the site - our specialist spent sometime in Cornell so she was really interested but just thought since we are going in if there is a shunt we would just fix it.....

Yorkieluv · 05-28-2008, 01:04 PM

There seems to be controversy about whether or not the cellophane band actually closes off completely like the ameroid constrictor. Here are a couple of links:

Morris Animal Foundation - Character of Occlusion of Portosystemic Shunts After Cellophane Band Placement
AVMA - Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association - 228(9):1355 - Abstract[B]
Your vet sounds like a good one and confident in his work. Make sure to ask about his success rate. Prayers for your little one

05-28-2008, 08:36 AM	#1
cyndi03 Yorkie Talker Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 15	Liver Shunt Cellophane Band Method? Well I had a consult apt with our surgeon earlier this week for the spay & liver biopsy. He also went over the procedure should there be a shunt & he would fix it while he's in there. He mentioned that he uses the cellophane band for shunts. I asked why not the Ameroid ring & he mentioned that they kink sometimes so he just uses the cellophane band method. I've read that the Ameroid constrictor is the best - is this correct or are both fine? Has anyone had the cellophane band used with success? Thanks! __________________ Cyndi, Lulu, & Maggie

05-28-2008, 09:34 AM	#2
Ellie May And Rylee Finnegan Donating Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Metro Detroit, MI Posts: 17,928	Hmm, hopefully Yorkieluv sees this. I really don't know. I thought the constrictor closed it off slowly and it was the ONLY right way. How many ls surgeries has this vet done and what is his success rate? Taking a liver biopsy, even when the dog is already open from a spay, is slowly become outdated. The procedure can be dangerous and isn't necessarily necessary. That's why the Protein C test is recommended. I'm not saying don't do it but if I had to do it over again I may have skipped Ellie's. __________________ Crystal, Ellie May (RIP), Rylee Finnegan, and Gracie Boo🐶

05-28-2008, 11:55 AM	#4
Yorkieluv Donating YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: USA Posts: 7,178	In my opinion, the ameroid constrictor is much safer than the cellophane band...The AC closes the shunt off slowly to avoid portal hypertension which can be dangerous...The increase in blood flow can cause serious complications...Or it's possible that if the pressure is too high due to the shunt being closed off completely too quickly, it can cause more shunting...AC should be used because it has better success rates as far as I know....This is just my personal opinion. University of Tennessee's website has a lot of information on this. As far as the biopsy goes, JMHO I think it's a good idea for them to go ahead and take a biopsy at the time of spay because this is the only way to 100% confirm that your baby has MVD. If they're already going in, then I don't see a reason why not to go ahead and do this. Now, if they're opening her up ONLY for a biopsy, then I would say to possibly reconsider and do a Protein C test instead. A Protein C test will not for sure say if she has MVD or liver shunt, it will just point you in the direction of likely to be liver shunt or likely to be MVD. __________________ Miko 's his Mommy

05-28-2008, 12:17 PM	#5
cyndi03 Yorkie Talker Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 15	Thanks for your responses!! It's a board certified surgeon & suppose to be one of the best in the city. From talking to him he sounded like he has done many liver shunts with success but then again I never got an exact # which I will ask once I compile all of my new questions for him. I have to sign off on letting him fix the shunt should there be one so I want to make sure he is using the correct method. Our specialist doesn't think it's a shunt so she suggests that if I'm doing the spay then we should do the liver biopsy at the same time so she only has to go under once & we can then see what the problem is with the liver as her bile acids results are high & she has low glucose. I do know that the cellophane band takes about 4-5 weeks before closing as well but the Ameroid Constrictor just has such positive feedback & really not much info on the Cellophane band.... Maybe I should just do the protein C test & then I wouldn't have to make the decision on the shunt method cause it may come back as she doesn't have a shunt - they never heard of a protein C test here in Canada until I showed them the site - our specialist spent sometime in Cornell so she was really interested but just thought since we are going in if there is a shunt we would just fix it..... __________________ Cyndi, Lulu, & Maggie

05-28-2008, 01:04 PM	#6
Yorkieluv Donating YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: USA Posts: 7,178	There seems to be controversy about whether or not the cellophane band actually closes off completely like the ameroid constrictor. Here are a couple of links: Morris Animal Foundation - Character of Occlusion of Portosystemic Shunts After Cellophane Band Placement AVMA - Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association - 228(9):1355 - Abstract[B] Your vet sounds like a good one and confident in his work. Make sure to ask about his success rate. Prayers for your little one __________________ Miko 's his Mommy