Live Birth / whelping

[Corfield]

We are expecting a new litter of Yorkies over the next few days.

We will be streaming live video of the birth and the litter for the next 7-8 weeks.

Litter Live Video - Corfield Yorkshire Terriers

[ColesMommy01]

This will be neat to watch for me. I get pics every week of my pup but it'd be interesting to see what a litter does on a day to day especially when they get older. Since you're in the UK, do pups usually stay with u 8 weeks or 12 like some breeders here in the states?

[Corfield]

We generally let them go at 7.5 to 8 weeks onwards if they are going to experienced dog owner homes.

There is real controversy as to when is the best time but we are swayed by the fact that by 7.5 weeks the puppies are weened and very well socialised with our other dogs, environment and mum. The sooner they get to their homes the sooner they get to socialise with their "family" before the fear imprint period ends around 12-16 weeks.

There are guide and police dog trainers that prefer a puppy at seven weeks to 12 precisely because being chewed to pieces in a litter for an extra few weeks is a lot less productive that the work they can do with a younger puppy that's been well socialised in the litter to seven weeks and learnt more than enough from its litter mates.

Now if you are dealing with an inexperienced owner with young children it is a different kettle of fish.

You have to try and find the right balance and i am not going to bad mouth people that take the view that holding onto puppies to 12 weeks is a bad thing - it isn't.

you have to bear in mind that the first 4 weeks of having a litter are not anything like the fun to be had wit ha litter that's 4-12 weeks (poo aside!) There are selfish motives at play to keeping a litter beyond 8 weeks and of course people breeding for show may want to hang on to [puppies in order to assess which they wish to keep or which they want to try sell for a higher price because of their show potential.

So swings and roundabouts.

If you can't have a sensible discussion with the breeder about the right age to home a puppy you are certainly not talking to a good breeder that knows their stuff.

Lot of emotion in dog breeding and buying. Logic and science don't always win out ...

[Corfield]

duplicate

[Corfield]

All kicking off now. One Bitch born 152g.

[Lovetodream88]

Small breeds are a lot different then larger breeds. They need to stay with their mom until 12 weeks it's proven better for them.

[Corfield]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

Small breeds are a lot different then larger breeds. They need to stay with their mom until 12 weeks it's proven better for them.

Can you post your source ?


Whelping all done - litter of 6.

Live video most days until they leave us.

www.corfieldyorkies.co.uk

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by Corfield

Can you post your source ?


Whelping all done - litter of 6.

Live video most days until they leave us.

Home - Corfield Yorkshire Terriers

http://www.theyorkshireterrierclubof...y_a_yorkie.pdf

The Importance of Socializing Your Puppy - Health | Hartz

Behavioural problems that can result from taking a puppy away from its mother between 2-4 weeks - Leadchanges

[Corfield]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

http://www.theyorkshireterrierclubof...y_a_yorkie.pdf

The Importance of Socializing Your Puppy - Health | Hartz

Behavioural problems that can result from taking a puppy away from its mother between 2-4 weeks - Leadchanges

Thanks ..

In the first source "This
ensures the puppy is old enough to have had some of its shots, has been checked by a veterinarian, and a health certificate issued. "

Nothing here about development needs.

The second source offers opinion not quoting a study or any scientific evidence " 7 weeks is too young in my opinion. 8-10 weeks is the norm now" Thats very weak argument, an authority should not fall into the logical fallacy of an argument ad populum (or at best introduce one as evidence to back up a professional opinion)

I dont need to read the third source it is for puppies to 4 weeks. We are talking 8 weeks plus.

[Corfield]

My primary source (which I can get my hands on) is


http://www.amazon.co.uk/Book-Bitch-J-M-Evans/dp/18...

Page 119 of 2002 edition

"the pups can go to new homes at the optimum time for adjustment, around seven weeks old. waiting until eight weeks takes them into the sensitive period when major changes and upsets are not advisable. Puppies as young as seven weeks bond with their owners very well and take changes more easily than an older puppy."

There is no citing of a study.

At this point I can't put my hands on other reading I did a few years ago re guide and police dog training but I will keep looking.


In fairness to your Source 3

Which says

""One write up I found suggested that toy pups should actually stay with their mothers until 14-16 weeks of age because they mature slowly and will learn better skills staying as a family until this age.

Notwithstanding the weakness of the source there is certainly a widely held opinion that toy breeds require special treatment over other breeds on this subject. "

Without good evidence that this is valid we are left with a special pleading fallacy that seeks to treat homing toy breed puppies as an exception to the rule which is not born out by my source above that clearly makes no distinction between breeds.

If anyone has sources of evidence that deal with the differences between "toy" or even Yorkshire terriers and other breeds in respect of their development generally or their development as puppies to adult. It would be very intetesting.

I would reiterate what I originally said which is that there seem to be some valid arguments on both side of the what age should a puppy leave for a new home (optimally). In my experience there are more people ready to openly condemn breeders (and owners) that release (obtained ) their puppy below 8 weeks when there should be a very clear distinction between 0-6 weeks and 7 weeks above where the real debate and uncertainty lies.

[kreuer]

I am not a breeder or expert, but as a Yorkie (mix) owner I would prefer the puppy be closer to 12 weeks. The reason being size. At 8 weeks these puppies are so tiny and more at risk of injury and hypoglycemia issues. 4 more weeks can make a big difference in size and they have been on dry food longer. The biggest issue I have seen on here with these tiny 8 week old puppies is getting them to eat, and that can be a serious issue that many people are not equipped to handle. Yes, even at 12 weeks you can have issues with hypoglycemia, but I believe are less than at 8 weeks. I bought my Yorkie mix from a backyard breeder, before being more educated, and even she kept the puppies until 10 weeks, or longer, depending on their size and whether she felt they were ready and eating well. But, this is just my opinion on the matter.

[Lovetodream88]

Just so you know scientific study's can be flawed. There was a great source I had but when my computer crashed it took it with it. Puppies are still learning up until 12 weeks, they miss out on socialization and learning about bitting by leaving there mom early. Nothing I say or show you is going to change your mind but it is 100% better for the puppies and I do not understand why a breeder would not want to give the puppies the best start possible. It is my experience that when a breeder skips on step that reputable breeders do that they skip more which in the end makes them not reputable and not the best place to get a puppy.

[Corfield]

Originally Posted by kreuer

I am not a breeder or expert, but as a Yorkie (mix) owner I would prefer the puppy be closer to 12 weeks. The reason being size. At 8 weeks these puppies are so tiny and more at risk of injury and hypoglycemia issues. 4 more weeks can make a big difference in size and they have been on dry food longer. The biggest issue I have seen on here with these tiny 8 week old puppies is getting them to eat, and that can be a serious issue that many people are not equipped to handle. Yes, even at 12 weeks you can have issues with hypoglycemia, but I believe are less than at 8 weeks. I bought my Yorkie mix from a backyard breeder, before being more educated, and even she kept the puppies until 10 weeks, or longer, depending on their size and whether she felt they were ready and eating well. But, this is just my opinion on the matter.

Sorry. this is just rubbish !

Yorkies eat well at 8 weeks. Same as any other breed.

Yorkies may be small but if you sit on an 8 week old Yorkie you would kill it.
Same for a 12 week old one.

It is irrelevant that "even she" kept her "backyard breeder" pups till 10 weeks.

People who breed "tiny" Yorkies are probably worth avoiding on ethical grounds.

A poorly bred puppy will remain so at 8 or 12 weeks.

[Corfield]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

Just so you know scientific study's can be flawed. There was a great source I had but when my computer crashed it took it with it. Puppies are still learning up until 12 weeks, they miss out on socialization and learning about bitting by leaving there mom early. Nothing I say or show you is going to change your mind but it is 100% better for the puppies and I do not understand why a breeder would not want to give the puppies the best start possible. It is my experience that when a breeder skips on step that reputable breeders do that they skip more which in the end makes them not reputable and not the best place to get a puppy.

The fact that some scientific studies can be poor is no reason to reject the scientific method. Another fallacy you are guilty of.

Bite inhibition begins when puppies are younger than 7 weeks and continues beyond 12 weeks. Owners should teach bite inhibition in any case. Guide and Police dogs have bite inhibition. If taking a pup at 7 weeks caused bite inhibition problems it is unlikely the police would ignore this in favour of the other benefits of taking a puppy at this age.

It is fine to claim it is 100% better but you can't produce good quality evidence to back up your claim.

I am destroying your arguments at every step and I am not the one claiming the moral high ground either.

If you can find some decent evidence please offer it up.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by Corfield

The fact that some scientific studies can be poor is no reason to reject the scientific method. Another fallacy you are guilty of.

Bite inhibition begins when puppies are younger than 7 weeks and continues beyond 12 weeks. Owners should teach bite inhibition in any case. Guide and Police dogs have bite inhibition. If taking a pup at 7 weeks caused bite inhibition problems it is unlikely the police would ignore this in favour of the other benefits of taking a puppy at this age.

It is fine to claim it is 100% better but you can't produce good quality evidence to back up your claim.

I am destroying your arguments at every step and I am not the one claiming the moral high ground either.

If you can find some decent evidence please offer it up.

Police dogs are larger dogs I am talking about small dogs. There is a huge difference. You can want to argue about it all you want but reputable breeders keep pups until 12 weeks. My breed club stands behind that as well.