Need advice for older yorkies

[Yorkie Mom2]

I need some advice. I have 2 "babies", one 14.5 years old and the other 12. Their teeth have always been a problem. We get them cleaned about every 2 years. Now the vet wants almost $350 apiece for the complete deal, but this doesn't include any extractions, which I am sure each needs at least one tooth extracted. My question is this...is it safe for a 14 and 1/2 year old, or even a 12 year old, to go under anesthesia. How much quality time will this possibly give my Bentley, my 14 and 1/2 year old or Porsche, my 12 year old? It is not just the money. We would pay anything to keep them with us longer. We paid $1400 last year to have Porsche's mammary cancer removed. It's the risk and the quality of life. What if Bentley doesn't even make it out of anesthesia? What would you do?

[Yorkiemom1]

My seniors live to 12 years-17 years old....at age 14, how is the condition of their teeth? I would imagine if you have been doing dentals all this time, hopefully their teeth are in reasonably good condition, with the attention they have routinely gotten up until this point.

I can only say what I would do in your place....at the wonderful age of 14, I personally would let the dental ride, as long as their teeth are in reasonably good condition. This is JUST for me and MY own peace of mind....I would never get over it if anything DID happen to my babies, because of getting teeth cleaned, especially if teeth had been well managed all those years. I have several 15- 17 year olds that I just use antibiotics on, prophylactically....that is because I could never get over it if something did happen under anesthesia..... If their teeth were in horrific condition, and they were half that age, there would be no hesitation....a good teeth cleaning would be done.

[airplane]

That's really a question to discuss with your veterinarian. And possibly the response might differ depending on the dog in question. The risk probably depends on a lot of different factors.

For me, I had my shih tzu, at 15 years old, have his teeth cleaned and an extraction of some roots that were fused to his jaw cause a previous veterinarian was too lazy to take out the roots on his teeth that were removed on a previous dental he had done. I was very very upset to find out that those roots were left in. I was furious. And it wasn't from years ago when doctors didn't know better. He also has a heart murmur, but a cardiologist did testing and convinced me that it wouldn't be a problem. Everything went well. But it's definitely his last time having a dental cleaning.

What's more, I've also heard of dogs at 17 years old being put under anaesthesia to have their teeth cleaned. But maybe it was really necessary. Who knows. Perhaps it might be a good idea to setup an appointment with your veterinarian to really discuss your concerns at length. From there you might be in a better spot to make the best decision for your dogs. It's definitely worth the $50 or whatever just to do a consultation with an expert. They should really be able to address your concerns and discuss things in depth and thoroughly.

[107barney]

I would do it. My dog Daisy had a dental last year at 14.5. My other dog Barney was 13.5. Unless there is a high risk for anesthesia, for example due to another disease like a very severe heart enlargement, I would not shy away just due to age. In fact, where we go, many dogs are much older than ours and dentals prolong their lives.

[Yorkiemom1]

I do want to mention one tiny little thing.....I am 66 years old, April will be 67 for me....I clearly remember my childhood pets/teenaged years with pets/even as close as the 70's and 80's....I never took my dogs to a dentist!! Funny thing is, they didnt NEED it! Their teeth were in great shape, none of this rotting out of their heads scenerio we have now....I dont know if this is strictly a yorkie thing as I have only had Yorkies starting in the 80's....not breeding, just pets.....and there were not the teeth issues back then.....I dont know what in the world is rotting the teeth out of our dogs heads, but it is clearly evident. Soft food, canned food, food in loaves/rolls, raw food, table food....makes no real difference....rotting teeth is the end result.

Personally, I am at an age and my personality is such that as I age, I find I can not let go of tragic events.....if I subjected a senior to having teeth cleaned, and I lost that baby on the table during the procedure, I would never forgive myself....so I elect to give therapeutic dosing of antibiotics to my dogs that I do not want to subject to anesthesia and teeth cleaning.....there is not a tooth in any of these babies heads, that is so important that I risk putting an aging senior under anesthesia....major surgery, fine....life threatening conditions that need surgical intervention, fine....cleaning teeth that have been cleaned and maintained all these years....nope! Mine hit 12 and that is no longer a risk/ratio I am willing to take.

[Yorkie Mom2]

Originally Posted by airplane

That's really a question to discuss with your veterinarian. And possibly the response might differ depending on the dog in question. The risk probably depends on a lot of different factors.

For me, I had my shih tzu, at 15 years old, have his teeth cleaned and an extraction of some roots that were fused to his jaw cause a previous veterinarian was too lazy to take out the roots on his teeth that were removed on a previous dental he had done. I was very very upset to find out that those roots were left in. I was furious. And it wasn't from years ago when doctors didn't know better. He also has a heart murmur, but a cardiologist did testing and convinced me that it wouldn't be a problem. Everything went well. But it's definitely his last time having a dental cleaning.

What's more, I've also heard of dogs at 17 years old being put under anaesthesia to have their teeth cleaned. But maybe it was really necessary. Who knows. Perhaps it might be a good idea to setup an appointment with your veterinarian to really discuss your concerns at length. From there you might be in a better spot to make the best decision for your dogs. It's definitely worth the $50 or whatever just to do a consultation with an expert. They should really be able to address your concerns and discuss things in depth and thoroughly.

We have an appointment set up for just such a call.

[Yorkie Mom2]

Originally Posted by 107barney

I would do it. My dog Daisy had a dental last year at 14.5. My other dog Barney was 13.5. Unless there is a high risk for anesthesia, for example due to another disease like a very severe heart enlargement, I would not shy away just due to age. In fact, where we go, many dogs are much older than ours and dentals prolong their lives.

That's what I want to talk to my vet about. I guess why I worry about Bentley, 14.5 years old, is because he is only 3.5 lbs. Porsche is 12 and is only 5 lbs. I want to prolong their lives as long as possible and keeping them on antibiotics forever doesn't really seem safe either. Isn't that hard on their livers or something? I am going to bring up all of these questions with my vet. Thank you for responding.

[107barney]

Originally Posted by Yorkiemom1

I do want to mention one tiny little thing.....I am 66 years old, April will be 67 for me....I clearly remember my childhood pets/teenaged years with pets/even as close as the 70's and 80's....I never took my dogs to a dentist!! Funny thing is, they didnt NEED it! Their teeth were in great shape, none of this rotting out of their heads scenerio we have now....I dont know if this is strictly a yorkie thing as I have only had Yorkies starting in the 80's....not breeding, just pets.....and there were not the teeth issues back then.....I dont know what in the world is rotting the teeth out of our dogs heads, but it is clearly evident. Soft food, canned food, food in loaves/rolls, raw food, table food....makes no real difference....rotting teeth is the end result.

Personally, I am at an age and my personality is such that as I age, I find I can not let go of tragic events.....if I subjected a senior to having teeth cleaned, and I lost that baby on the table during the procedure, I would never forgive myself....so I elect to give therapeutic dosing of antibiotics to my dogs that I do not want to subject to anesthesia and teeth cleaning.....there is not a tooth in any of these babies heads, that is so important that I risk putting an aging senior under anesthesia....major surgery, fine....life threatening conditions that need surgical intervention, fine....cleaning teeth that have been cleaned and maintained all these years....nope! Mine hit 12 and that is no longer a risk/ratio I am willing to take.

I understand this viewpoint and fears of anesthesia. But dogs are either good anesthetic candidates or they aren't and age is just one factor. My dog Teddy who is only 7 just had a dental and during the procedure he had to be bagged and given glyco for his respiratory rate and heart rate dropped. The point of this is that it is unsettling to know that he had a rough ride, what was uncovered in dental X-rays was surprising and his health is better because of the procedure. He had beautiful clean teeth and the only reason he went in for a procedure was to biopsy a mass on his gums.

I disagree that food is causing these issues. It's the size of small dogs heads being too small for all 42 teeth they have. My Winston had rotated teeth and crowding along with a short upper jaw. He is set up for resulting bone and tooth loss. Without the care I give him (including five dentals in his 4.5 years of life), I would expect him to have zero teeth left.

I would forgive myself for any decision I make for my dogs that is intended to make their lives better. If I call it wrong, I'll live with the satisfaction of knowing my emotions didn't stand in the way of their health. I can understand that someone else might feel differently.

It's an individual decision and each dog's case should be evaluated on that basis. It's wrong to fear procedures because of age alone.

[107barney]

Originally Posted by Yorkiemom1

I do want to mention one tiny little thing.....I am 66 years old, April will be 67 for me....I clearly remember my childhood pets/teenaged years with pets/even as close as the 70's and 80's....I never took my dogs to a dentist!! Funny thing is, they didnt NEED it! Their teeth were in great shape, none of this rotting out of their heads scenerio we have now....I dont know if this is strictly a yorkie thing as I have only had Yorkies starting in the 80's....not breeding, just pets.....and there were not the teeth issues back then.....I dont know what in the world is rotting the teeth out of our dogs heads, but it is clearly evident. Soft food, canned food, food in loaves/rolls, raw food, table food....makes no real difference....rotting teeth is the end result.

Personally, I am at an age and my personality is such that as I age, I find I can not let go of tragic events.....if I subjected a senior to having teeth cleaned, and I lost that baby on the table during the procedure, I would never forgive myself....so I elect to give therapeutic dosing of antibiotics to my dogs that I do not want to subject to anesthesia and teeth cleaning.....there is not a tooth in any of these babies heads, that is so important that I risk putting an aging senior under anesthesia....major surgery, fine....life threatening conditions that need surgical intervention, fine....cleaning teeth that have been cleaned and maintained all these years....nope! Mine hit 12 and that is no longer a risk/ratio I am willing to take.

Also, a bad tooth can be not only very painful but can affect their hearts and kidneys and even their bones. I couldn't just leave my dogs with bad teeth unless they had another reason not to undergo anesthesia.

[Yorkiemom1]

Fortunately, none of mine have had pain issues with their teeth....nor any gross rotten, infected teeth....deterioration to that point would absolutely be cause for intervention....good dental care for the first 12 years of their life, can not be negated by 3-4 years of no dentals....and with the adm. of prophylactic abx. to protect other organs from any bacterial bombardment (which is almost not even an issue because of good dentals up until that age, as well as apparently good breeding behind my dogs, as my dogs teeth are strong and good and show tartar buildup only mildly to moderately, after 3-4 years of no dentals), the maintainance dose of antibiotic they receive prophylactically obviously do the trick....I can live with a little tartar on teeth....putting seniors under anesthesia and possibility of loosing one, is not something I could ever justify in my mind....I would not ever get over it.....but we have to live with decisions we make for our "dependents"!

[107barney]

Originally Posted by Yorkiemom1

Fortunately, none of mine have had pain issues with their teeth....nor any gross rotten, infected teeth....deterioration to that point would absolutely be cause for intervention....good dental care for the first 12 years of their life, can not be negated by 3-4 years of no dentals....and with the adm. of prophylactic abx. to protect other organs from any bacterial bombardment (which is almost not even an issue because of good dentals up until that age, as well as apparently good breeding behind my dogs, as my dogs teeth are strong and good and show tartar buildup only mildly to moderately, after 3-4 years of no dentals), the maintainance dose of antibiotic they receive prophylactically obviously do the trick....I can live with a little tartar on teeth....putting seniors under anesthesia and possibility of loosing one, is not something I could ever justify in my mind....I would not ever get over it.....but we have to live with decisions we make for our "dependents"!

If you saw my dog Teddy's mouth with his porcelain white beautiful teeth that had no tartar on them you would never have thought that 8 teeth needed to come out. Without dental X-rays you do not know what the health of the teeth is under the gumline.

The risk of anesthesia is not increased due to age. The risks are due to underlying health concerns. Thankfully the risk of anesthetic death is very small when an up to date protocol is used. I think dogs need an IV catheter placed and fluids being run during the procedure with appropriate drugs and monitoring. If you are doing that, then the risk of driving to the vet to drop your dog off is far greater than the risk of anesthetic death.

I still understand the different view point. I just happen to think that oral health is very important to many other health issues in Yorkies. I had a dog with a shoulder tendinitis and it went away after the teeth were cleaned (and he had very mild tartar). There is now evidence that bad teeth or underlying periodontal disease causes inflammation elsewhere in the body.

I don't understand why anyone would give prophylactic antibiotics to dogs that don't have dental issues. What's the rationale for that? I am genuinely curious.

[Yorkie Mom2]

Thank you so much, everyone! I truly appreciate all the different views. It gives me many questions to ask the vet and many things to think about myself. Also, to mention is Bentley's dementia. I don't know, it's just another factor in the picture. His major problem is sleeping. He gets up all hours of the night and barks incessantly. Will this anesthesia and dental cleaning all help him or hurt him?

[Yorkie Mom2]

Originally Posted by 107barney

If you saw my dog Teddy's mouth with his porcelain white beautiful teeth that had no tartar on them you would never have thought that 8 teeth needed to come out. Without dental X-rays you do not know what the health of the teeth is under the gumline.

The risk of anesthesia is not increased due to age. The risks are due to underlying health concerns. Thankfully the risk of anesthetic death is very small when an up to date protocol is used. I think dogs need an IV catheter placed and fluids being run during the procedure with appropriate drugs and monitoring. If you are doing that, then the risk of driving to the vet to drop your dog off is far greater than the risk of anesthetic death.

I still understand the different view point. I just happen to think that oral health is very important to many other health issues in Yorkies. I had a dog with a shoulder tendinitis and it went away after the teeth were cleaned (and he had very mild tartar). There is now evidence that bad teeth or underlying periodontal disease causes inflammation elsewhere in the body.

I don't understand why anyone would give prophylactic antibiotics to dogs that don't have dental issues. What's the rationale for that? I am genuinely curious.

Me too! As I understand it, prophylactic antibiotics is to prevent complications from infections traveling through the bloodstream. I am just conflicted about what is best for my babies. My husband doesn't trust vets at all. He thinks they are all about the money, but I have known my vet since we went through Lamaze 38 years ago. Our oldest sons are the same age.

[canana]

Just speaking on my experience with my previous dog who lived to 19 - she was on heart medication for 5+ years due to a heart murmur and heart issues. So, we didn't put her under for teeth cleaning for the last 5+ years of her life, as suggested from our vet. I wouldn't have been able to live with myself if because of the teeth cleaning, she wouldn't wake up. It'd be much too horrible!

However, it was important to me that her health was maintained by keeping her teeth clean, so I brushed her teeth frequently and took the risk to remove plaque myself with dental tools at home. I also took her to get her teeth cleaned, anesthesia-free, which seems to be more popular these days.

[Yorkie Mom2]

Originally Posted by canana

Just speaking on my experience with my previous dog who lived to 19 - she was on heart medication for 5+ years due to a heart murmur and heart issues. So, we didn't put her under for teeth cleaning for the last 5+ years of her life, as suggested from our vet. I wouldn't have been able to live with myself if because of the teeth cleaning, she wouldn't wake up. It'd be much too horrible!

However, it was important to me that her health was maintained by keeping her teeth clean, so I brushed her teeth frequently and took the risk to remove plaque myself with dental tools at home. I also took her to get her teeth cleaned, anesthesia-free, which seems to be more popular these days.

Thank you for that!!!!