Need some tips for Joel(and Roxy)

[ilovejoel]

First of all, when we had our other Akitas we never already had a yorkie when we first got them so this seems so much harder then the other dogs
They aren't getting along as much as I wanted, they've been fighting a little, not big fighting but just bothering each other a lot. Joel is having the only child attitude(because Rosco let him have and do whatever he wanted)he tries taking all the toys from her, and Roxy just will not leave him alone and is always chewing on him(though she has gotten a lot better). She spends a lot of time in the play pen, she does really good in the play pen and never fusses to get out, she'll just sleep. I'm working on less time in the play pen but it's so frustrating.
They don't actually play, it just looks like they're playing but they're usually doing something mean.
Honestly I haven't been doing my best with Roxy, I used ALL my patients and training when Joel was a pup and I feel like I have nothing left lol, which is worse because Roxy is so much bigger and way harder than Joel was, and I won't even talk about her pulling on the leash

[dawn27]

How old are the two pups that you are having the issue with?

[ilovejoel]

Joel is 2 1/2 and Roxy is 4 months
Also, this is more for Roxy but she isn't aware of her size so she's so rough. We're not sure how to teach her or when to separate them, because when she's in the play pen it's not teaching her. So any tips will help

[dawn27]

Your Joel is still very young and its normal for them to play rough. Your little one Roxy is just doing what come natural for litter mate play. Since Joel is now her fur family !


I agree she isn't learning anything by being placed in her pen but sometimes it is necessary. I would suggest leash training (umbilical cord training) which gives you assess to her every move so that when she is playing to rouph or nipping and biting you can nip it in the bud...LOl pun intended !! Be sure to use a harness with this type of training. You want to say with a very firm deep voice "Ah Ah & NO" or "ROXY NO" 'NO BITE" putting stress on the work "NO" than follow up with "Be Gentle". The key to stopping it is to try and stop her from ever reaching that threshold when the rough play and biting begins. If voice commands fail to get her to stop than you may want to try a Shaker can to get her attention or a time out as a last resort.


So , How does Joel react when she is playing rough ???

[ilovejoel]

When she gets rough with Joel is when the fighting starts. They'll be fine and out of nowhere Joel gets really mad and starts snarling at her, which means she pawed him or nipped him and then you have to get between them and tell them to stop. Then they'll be fine for the next 30 seconds and it starts again.
Joel only takes her toys and then Roxy thinks he's playing while Joel gets madder, lol

[dawn27]

Sounds like someone needs to share their toys ! Its the hardest thing for a pup to learn when they are being too rough and when enough is enough. Which is why it is so important not to leave them unattended and that you monitor their play time so that you can play referee. I would also suggest that don't allow them to play for long periods of time together. Shorter times together might be best , extending it to a longer time period as they behave themselves. Also allow them each time to play alone with the one toy that seems to be a favorite of the other. That way their scents are one them... and NEVER play rough with them with that particular toy to the point of making it a competition. That is a huge No no, believe me I found that out the hard way. My DD use to do that and it ended up being a huge issue between Ruby and Brandi.

[ilovejoel]

Thanks for the tips I definitely need to keep up on them. The good thing now is that Roxy is pretty much toothless right now, haha so we're all enjoying that

[dawn27]

Good Luck !! Let me know how things go . .

[DBlain]

I hate seeing this thread because honestly I have been worried about this pairing from the start. Rosco was old and mellow and your puppy is young, playful, nippy and outweighs Joel and will only be getting larger and larger. Joel from what you have posted is a loveable, confident, and a full of himself big guy in a little dog's body. He was used to walking all over Rosco and getting away with it, now in a way you are expecting Joel's behavior that at one time you thought was cute to change and you are expecting a puppy to act like an adult dog all mellow and relaxed. If you wanted a playmate for Joel you should have found one around his same size and age now instead you will be forced for safety sake to keep one or the other crated and closely supervised. It pains me to think that you would take on an Akita puppy, if you really feel like what you just posted. I used ALL my patients and training when Joel was a pup and I feel like I have nothing left lol

Since you owned other Akita's I am sure you are well aware of their need for training so I hope you step up to the challenge for the safety and welfare of both dogs and if you are not up for it or don't have the knowledge you need to find someone to help you.

Right Breed for You?
Although known to be a quiet dog (they are known as the "Silent Hunter" in Japan), the Akita has strong guarding instincts and will sound the alarm if an intruder breaks into their house. Akita temperament can range from calm to bouncy and aggressive, so the breed should always be supervised around small children and other animals. Akitas like to be "pack leader," so obedience training is also necessary for a harmonious household.

[ilovejoel]

Originally Posted by DBlain

I hate seeing this thread because honestly I have been worried about this pairing from the start. Rosco was old and mellow and your puppy is young, playful, nippy and outweighs Joel and will only be getting larger and larger. Joel from what you have posted is a loveable, confident, and a full of himself big guy in a little dog's body. He was used to walking all over Rosco and getting away with it, now in a way you are expecting Joel's behavior that at one time you thought was cute to change and you are expecting a puppy to act like an adult dog all mellow and relaxed. If you wanted a playmate for Joel you should have found one around his same size and age now instead you will be forced for safety sake to keep one or the other crated and closely supervised. It pains me to think that you would take on an Akita puppy, if you really feel like what you just posted. I used ALL my patients and training when Joel was a pup and I feel like I have nothing left lol

Since you owned other Akita's I am sure you are well aware of their need for training so I hope you step up to the challenge for the safety and welfare of both dogs and if you are not up for it or don't have the knowledge you need to find someone to help you.

Right Breed for You?
Although known to be a quiet dog (they are known as the "Silent Hunter" in Japan), the Akita has strong guarding instincts and will sound the alarm if an intruder breaks into their house. Akita temperament can range from calm to bouncy and aggressive, so the breed should always be supervised around small children and other animals. Akitas like to be "pack leader," so obedience training is also necessary for a harmonious household.

Getting Roxy was the whole families choice, so I don't have any say over it. She wasn't got for a playmate for Joel Even when we got Joel we knew we would eventually get another Akita when Rosco passed. Knowing that, we wouldn't have not got Joel or not gotten Roxy. It's not that hard, I was just asking for some tips for them to play nicely together from people that have expeirience with big and little dogs.
We also do work a lot with Roxy just not the hours and hours a day I spent with Joel.
Other than Roxy playing too rough with Joel she is very behaved and super socialized.
They've already gotten so much better the the last few days we've been teaching them to play nice.

[dawn27]

Just wondering if you have you made any progress with your babies?


I know it doesn't happen over night but its been several days since I made some suggestions in training. Just wondering if you have had time to try them out.

[ilovejoel]

Originally Posted by dawn27

Just wondering if you have you made any progress with your babies?


I know it doesn't happen over night but its been several days since I made some suggestions in training. Just wondering if you have had time to try them out.

Thanks for the tips. They have gotten a lot better
She's barely going in the play pen and they are playing nicer. What we're still working on is Roxy stalking lol and Joel to not freak out when she squeeks a toy But over all they're doing much better.

[gemy]

I read your missive, and now that I have some internet access wanted to take some time to reply.

You may know that I am a firm believer in obedience training for all dogs, but most especially large breed dogs. And I have 2 large Black Russian Terriers, and my YT Razzle.

Your new 4month old gal, is old enough to go into formal obedience training, if you feel confident enough to do that on your own, go for it! If not enroll in some classes near to you.

For me and this is only how I do it, I never leave toys on the floor for un-supervised play, I don't exercise off - lead, a learning puppy and my YT, and the training I do is one on one. I do use crate and rotate, when I can't be physically present to supervise the inter-actions. My senior male BRT is allowed free reign in the house with Razzle and to be off-lead with Razzle. Razzle sleeps in his crate at night, as does our puppy. This is for Razzles' protection, as I don't want large dogs in-advertently stepping on Razzle in the darkest dark of night.

Some examples, we are on vacation, and our puppy BRT who is now 8 months old, got to dock dive and swim, but not with Razzle, she did it with our senior male BRT. And then Razzle some time on his own, and then Magic and Razzle together. So it was crate and rotate at the lakeside.

It is just things can happen in the blink of an eye, just last night, Razzle our YT was up on the couch, he is the only dog allowed up on furniture, and our puppy Dara came wandering by, Razzle leapt at her, fiercely growling (resource guarding me), and Dara pinned him under her paw, then her head went down, I took her beard in my hands and said NO, NEVER. Hubby and I were both up in a flash, Dara got disciplined, and Razzle got disciplined more, he went to his crate for a time-out and was told very sternly NO. Dara got put in a down/stay. This was the first ever inter-action like this. Both dogs got the fact they were in the wrong.

The point is with large n small, there needs to be a certain level of constant awareness.

When your dogs age and slow down, and the pack dynamic is firmly rooted, more freedom, and less vigilance can happen.

I am happy to hear that things seem to have eased up a bit in your home.

[dawn27]

Originally Posted by ilovejoel

Thanks for the tips. They have gotten a lot better
She's barely going in the play pen and they are playing nicer. What we're still working on is Roxy stalking lol and Joel to not freak out when she squeeks a toy But over all they're doing much better.

Good to hear things are going better ! Keep up the great work with them and I would defiantly take what Gail said to heart. With her having more experience with large breed dogs she has some great insight as to what can be done. I totally agree that obedience training for dogs is important especially large breeds. They tend not to know their own strength and need to be taught how to behave around the smaller gentler ones including but not limited to children and other small animals.

[ilovejoel]

Thanks
The good thing is she is SO good with the kids, she never puts a paw on them and has never nibbled them or knocked them down. We've never had to teach her that, she just knows naturally. I think it's because she's a girl because our boys had to be taught lol.