LPs...environmental or genetics? - YorkieTalk.com Forums

txshopper73 · 12-20-2005, 10:46 AM

There has been a lot of talk lately that has gotten me wondering about LPs. Are they truly genetic or are they environmental??? Let's say, you take the pup into the vet right before going to their forever home. You specifically ask for the knees to be checked not only for your records but so that you can send a copy home with the new parents...absolutely NOTHING wrong with the knees. Weeks or months later, they come back and tell you their dog has LPs. What do you go by? They had sound knees when they left and now all of a sudden they've got it?

You don't know that the pup didn't get it from an injury or jumping down off of furniture constantly. You aren't at the owner's house to see what kind of activity the dog has.

So, what do you do?

I've not had this happen to me but have been pondering the question since another breeder posed it on a thread about guarantees.

txshopper73 · 12-20-2005, 10:46 AM

Even spoke to another breeder about this and they thought the same thing...could be genetic but also could be environmental.

BamaFan121s · 12-20-2005, 11:21 AM

Oh...I know the answer to this one!

LP can be caused from either. If the vet does an x-ray, they can usually determine if it was from an injury because the ligaments that attach to the front of the knee cap will have visible tears in them. They are not present when it is genetic because that is the natural placement of the joint, rather than a forces displacement in the case of an injury. Ahh...that med school did pay off a little.

RowdysMom · 12-20-2005, 11:21 AM

I sure don't know the answer, but I wouldn't think that constant jumping down from furniture couldn't possibly be good for those little tiny knees. I know I keep stairs for Rowdy for the couch, chair (with my hubby) and the bed to try to prevent future knee/leg problems. He uses them 95% of the time and that's all I can ask.

BamaFan121s · 12-20-2005, 11:22 AM

Actually, I specify in my sales agreement that diagnosis of such must be examined by their vet and mine and must be determined that it was NOT the result of an injury.

janet21 · 12-20-2005, 11:48 AM

I was told in march that scamp who is 3 had LPs The vet was not sure if he should to agilty or not but said to see how he went. In august he was sprised to find that the LPs had gone. Do thing the exercise has help to strenth the ligament and hold the knee in.

Julz · 12-20-2005, 11:52 AM

It is both. They can be born with it, but Yorkies are also very prone to LP (as are many other toy and small breeds). You could have a pup with no LPs who could have one by the time the new owner gets the pup home. It can happen so easily. If it is caused by an injury it is an immediate problem.

toninm · 12-20-2005, 11:52 AM

I am not too sure...i need more info on this....does it happen to only tiny dogs???

Julz · 12-20-2005, 11:53 AM

It can happen to any dog from an injury, but many breeds are more prone to it...the Yorkie is definetly one of them. A dog being extremely overweight can bring it on also.

BamaFan121s · 12-20-2005, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by janet21

I was told in march that scamp who is 3 had LPs The vet was not sure if he should to agilty or not but said to see how he went. In august he was sprised to find that the LPs had gone. Do thing the exercise has help to strenth the ligament and hold the knee in.

That is great to hear that he is doing better!

txshopper73 · 12-20-2005, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

Oh...I know the answer to this one!

LP can be caused from either. If the vet does an x-ray, they can usually determine if it was from an injury because the ligaments that attach to the front of the knee cap will have visible tears in them. They are not present when it is genetic because that is the natural placement of the joint, rather than a forces displacement in the case of an injury. Ahh...that med school did pay off a little.

Thanks! And yes, med school did pay off!

YorkieRose · 12-20-2005, 02:12 PM

I say both...and no vet can tell you 100% if a Yorkies bad knees are a result of genetics or injury.
At least 50 to 75% have some degree of knee problems..but so few actual need surgery. If they were Shepherds or Dobies, they would..and many vets are so quick to insist on surgery when there are no symtoms.

Keeping the weight normal and preventing constant jumping will fix the problem just about the same as surgery/..unless it is a very bad luxation. Vets say once the knee is repaired they will develop arthritis and have pain from that..

BamaFan121s · 12-20-2005, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YorkieRose

I say both...and no vet can tell you 100% if a Yorkies bad knees are a result of genetics or injury.

True...NOTHING is 100%...that is why I said "usually"...just clarifying.

12-20-2005, 10:46 AM	#1
txshopper73 Donating YT 14K Club Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 14,226 Blog Entries: 1	LPs...environmental or genetics? There has been a lot of talk lately that has gotten me wondering about LPs. Are they truly genetic or are they environmental??? Let's say, you take the pup into the vet right before going to their forever home. You specifically ask for the knees to be checked not only for your records but so that you can send a copy home with the new parents...absolutely NOTHING wrong with the knees. Weeks or months later, they come back and tell you their dog has LPs. What do you go by? They had sound knees when they left and now all of a sudden they've got it? You don't know that the pup didn't get it from an injury or jumping down off of furniture constantly. You aren't at the owner's house to see what kind of activity the dog has. So, what do you do? I've not had this happen to me but have been pondering the question since another breeder posed it on a thread about guarantees. __________________ As always...JMO (Just My Opinion) Kimberley

12-20-2005, 10:46 AM	#2
txshopper73 Donating YT 14K Club Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 14,226 Blog Entries: 1	Even spoke to another breeder about this and they thought the same thing...could be genetic but also could be environmental. __________________ As always...JMO (Just My Opinion) Kimberley

12-20-2005, 11:21 AM	#4
RowdysMom Donating YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Central Texas Posts: 2,624	I sure don't know the answer, but I wouldn't think that constant jumping down from furniture couldn't possibly be good for those little tiny knees. I know I keep stairs for Rowdy for the couch, chair (with my hubby) and the bed to try to prevent future knee/leg problems. He uses them 95% of the time and that's all I can ask. __________________ Rex & Rowdy's Mom Last edited by RowdysMom; 12-20-2005 at 11:25 AM.

12-20-2005, 11:52 AM	#8
toninm My Yorkie is my life Donating Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 1,187	I am not too sure...i need more info on this....does it happen to only tiny dogs??? __________________ Toni & Dollar http://www.dogster.com/pet_page.php?i=212581

12-20-2005, 02:12 PM	#12
YorkieRose No Longer a Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: South Florida Posts: 8,577	? I say both...and no vet can tell you 100% if a Yorkies bad knees are a result of genetics or injury. At least 50 to 75% have some degree of knee problems..but so few actual need surgery. If they were Shepherds or Dobies, they would..and many vets are so quick to insist on surgery when there are no symtoms. Keeping the weight normal and preventing constant jumping will fix the problem just about the same as surgery/..unless it is a very bad luxation. Vets say once the knee is repaired they will develop arthritis and have pain from that..

12-20-2005, 11:21 AM	#3
BamaFan121s Donating YT 10K Club Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Alabama Posts: 11,432	Oh...I know the answer to this one! LP can be caused from either. If the vet does an x-ray, they can usually determine if it was from an injury because the ligaments that attach to the front of the knee cap will have visible tears in them. They are not present when it is genetic because that is the natural placement of the joint, rather than a forces displacement in the case of an injury. Ahh...that med school did pay off a little.

12-20-2005, 11:22 AM	#5
BamaFan121s Donating YT 10K Club Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Alabama Posts: 11,432	Actually, I specify in my sales agreement that diagnosis of such must be examined by their vet and mine and must be determined that it was NOT the result of an injury.

12-20-2005, 11:48 AM	#6
janet21 YorkieTalk Newbie! Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: uk Posts: 7	I was told in march that scamp who is 3 had LPs The vet was not sure if he should to agilty or not but said to see how he went. In august he was sprised to find that the LPs had gone. Do thing the exercise has help to strenth the ligament and hold the knee in.

12-20-2005, 11:52 AM	#7
Julz Donating YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 4,347	It is both. They can be born with it, but Yorkies are also very prone to LP (as are many other toy and small breeds). You could have a pup with no LPs who could have one by the time the new owner gets the pup home. It can happen so easily. If it is caused by an injury it is an immediate problem.

12-20-2005, 11:53 AM	#9
Julz Donating YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 4,347	It can happen to any dog from an injury, but many breeds are more prone to it...the Yorkie is definetly one of them. A dog being extremely overweight can bring it on also.