Spaying an adult

[joybuggy]

Hi all, this is my first post. My 13 yo male yorkie passed away earlier this month and I am in the process of contacting breeders to purchase a new male puppy.

I have an intact female (born August 2005) and I am considering now that there may be health benefits not only to her, but also behavioral benefits for the new puppy to have her spayed before the new puppy arrives. She weighs about 6.5 lbs and her last heat was around 4 months ago.

She has never been bred nor do we ever intend to breed her. Our vet advised us that the benefits of spaying are primarily to offset the risk of cancer, which he felt were low. Now that we are looking to acquire a new puppy we are considering whether there are enough benefits of spaying her to pursue it.

Please weigh in if you have an opinion.

[MY OSCAR]

Originally Posted by joybuggy

Hi all, this is my first post. My 13 yo male yorkie passed away earlier this month and I am in the process of contacting breeders to purchase a new male puppy.

I have an intact female (born August 2005) and I am considering now that there may be health benefits not only to her, but also behavioral benefits for the new puppy to have her spayed before the new puppy arrives. She weighs about 6.5 lbs and her last heat was around 4 months ago.

She has never been bred nor do we ever intend to breed her. Our vet advised us that the benefits of spaying are primarily to offset the risk of cancer, which he felt were low. Now that we are looking to acquire a new puppy we are considering whether there are enough benefits of spaying her to pursue it.

Please weigh in if you have an opinion.

yes, the older she gets there is a greater risk for mammary tumors and pyometra which are both very serious..

it will also make it much easier on her and the male pup if she is spayed before he comes home because when he is old enough they will want to mate..

i would definetly have her spayed and the pup nuetered when old enough

[tjdmom]

I have read studies that dogs spayed after 4 years of age, have a longer life expectancy so I can understand your concerns and I really do have mixed feelings because I do believe that mother nature in her infinite wisdom did create hormone's for a reason. But I think also that having your female intact with a male around might be just looking for trouble and at her age, I personally feel that you would be ok to go ahead and have her spayed now and that's coming from someone who is not necessarily on the spay/neuter band wagon....

[joybuggy]

Originally Posted by MY OSCAR

i would definetly have her spayed and the pup nuetered when old enough

Thanks for zippy feedback. The puppy will be neutered as early as possible. Preferably before he comes to our home by a vet that does not trach during the procedure.

We are looking for a pet only.

Now I need to convince my husband that spay for our adult female is a good idea. He thinks it is a very cruel surgery but I agree that she is at a high risk of infection with each passing heat plus she is very uncomfortable during her heat.

[MandiesMom]

Hi and welcome to the forum. I wanted to say that I am sorry for you loss of your yorkie recently.

My opinion on the spaying is this:
Even if the new pup is male and is neutered right away, there is ALWAYS some outside chance that a non-spayed female could get pregnant. I've seen too many incidents when a dog that "never goes outside and never around other dogs" gets out by accident. If that occurred while in heat, it's just asking for trouble. I don't think there is any harm at all in spaying later in life and the risk of not doing it (even if miniscule) is there. So, I say spay.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by joybuggy

Thanks for zippy feedback. The puppy will be neutered as early as possible. Preferably before he comes to our home by a vet that does not trach during the procedure.

We are looking for a pet only.

Now I need to convince my husband that spay for our adult female is a good idea. He thinks it is a very cruel surgery but I agree that she is at a high risk of infection with each passing heat plus she is very uncomfortable during her heat.

Please do not have your new pup neutered before 6 months try to wait until there platelets are closed.

[lisaly]

I agree with Taylor about not neutering a young pup too early. It is best to wait until the growth plates are closed so that there isn't uneven development in his structure. I'm very sorry about the loss of your little boy. Your little girl should be fine being spayed as an adult. I'd recommend that you have pre-surgical blood tests done on her prior to her having surgery. It might take her a little longer to recover after surgery than if she were younger, but you will be minimizing her risks for cancer and pyrometers. I hope your new little boy helps to heal your heart when he joins your family. We lost our last little girl, Ashley, two years ago, but our little girl Katie has really brightened our lives so much since we brought her home on Mother's Day. We still miss our little angels at the Rainbow Bridge, but we completely adore Katie and she has helped with the pain from our loss.

[joybuggy]

Originally Posted by lisaly

I agree with Taylor about not neutering a young pup too early. It is best to wait until the growth plates are closed so that there isn't uneven development in his structure.

I've never heard these concerns about neutering too early so certainly I have more research to do. I was always firmly in the camp of doing it as early as is safe to prevent leg lifting, humping, and other bad behaviors. I will chat with the breeder and the vet more on this topic.

Originally Posted by lisaly

Your little girl should be fine being spayed as an adult. I'd recommend that you have pre-surgical blood tests done on her prior to her having surgery. It might take her a little longer to recover after surgery than if she were younger, but you will be minimizing her risks for cancer and pyrometers.

So our little girl is 7+, will she continue to have heats or do they outgrow it at some point and have doggie menopause? Maybe the debate is moot if she is done with her heats anyway?

You've all made me feel very welcome in the forum and given great advice. Thank you for the warm reception.

[TxVicki]

[QUOTE=joybuggy;4088821]


So our little girl is 7+, will she continue to have heats or do they outgrow it at some point and have doggie menopause? Maybe the debate is moot if she is done with her heats anyway?

She will continue to go into heat. AS far as I know, female dog's do not go into menopause. The older she get's the more at risk she becomes of getting a horrible uterine infection and possibly cancer.

[CouversMom]

I would spay your female asap and then neuter your puppy once he is old enough. He should at least be 6 months.

[gracielove]

She is not too old to have problems with surgery. Why keep her intact if she is not a breeding female? What is the benefit? Saving money? Spaying would spare her the continual heat cycles and spare you from having to clean up after her and being extra careful in watching for male dogs she could attract to your area. Male dogs can smell a female in heat for miles around so there is always a danger of a male getting loose and coming to find the female.
The constant hormonal shifts does increase the risk of cancer when she gets older. When she is older you may have more of a risk having her go under anesthesia. So waiting until she is more at risk is not a good idea.

I had a female almost die of a uterine infection during a heat cycle. There are more benefits to having the surgery done than not to.

[107barney]

Originally Posted by joybuggy

Thanks for zippy feedback. The puppy will be neutered as early as possible. Preferably before he comes to our home by a vet that does not trach during the procedure.

We are looking for a pet only.

Now I need to convince my husband that spay for our adult female is a good idea. He thinks it is a very cruel surgery but I agree that she is at a high risk of infection with each passing heat plus she is very uncomfortable during her heat.

Why would you want to use a vet that doesn't insert an endotracheal tube in during a surgery??? The safest way to anesthetize a dog is using gas inhalants to maintain them and that is done with a endotracheal tube. I'd never let a vet touch my dog who used injectable anesthetics for a spay or neuter - to me that is akin of knocking the dog down with a club. It is simply not true that endotracheal tubes do damage on small breeds in the absence of incompetence or an underlying medical problem. These medical supplies come in all sizes. More important is finding a vet who uses the SAFEST (and most modern) anesthetics, has someone monitoring your dog at all times during the procedure, does preanesthetic blood work, and who will properly manage your dog's surgical and post surgical pain. Even some low cost spay and neuter clinics follow these standards.

Spaying your dog is not a cruel surgery. Responsible pet owners spay and neuter their animals and reduce the chances of preventable disease like mammary tumors. There simply is no good reason to leave your pet intact

As for age, it is simply not true that males who are neutered later are leg lifters and the like. One of my males was neutered at a very early age, one neutered at 6 months, and my latest rescue at 10 months old. It's more a training issue in my view than any other factor. I assure you that no one lifts legs around here, it's simply not acceptable canine behavior.

Good luck.

[joybuggy]

Originally Posted by 107barney

It is simply not true that endotracheal tubes do damage on small breeds in the absence of incompetence or an underlying medical problem.

Thanks for some good advice on surgery for yorkies! I definitely was under the impression that the trach was dangerous and had planned to inquire with my vet. Can you elaborate further on "safe" anesthesia? Are there any that should be avoided for yorkies? We'll go see the vet after the New Year for a pre-op appointment and annual. I definitely want to have all my surgical questions ready. In the past, for my male I always opted for the pre-op blood panel as cost is not a huge concern for us so that is a good recommendation.

I've also heard that the pre-op shots are a bad idea for yorkies (like hitting with a club). Any thoughts?

My little girl has never had surgery. Would it be a good idea to have her teeth cleaned at the same time as her spay? I've heard of non-anesthetic teeth cleaning but I don't know how to find someone to do this in the Bay Area.

Thanks everyone for all the great advice so far.

[joybuggy]

Originally Posted by gracielove

There are more benefits to having the surgery done than not to.

Thanks for some good advice. As we live on the third floor of a co-op in the city and our little girl is pad-trained so rarely outside (and never off leash when she is), there is no pregnancy risk whatsoever. She is kind of a princess in a tower and most comfortable at home watching TV.

I'm still weighing the benefits of the surgery. They were never compelling enough in the past to proceed but now as we consider adding a puppy I am stepping through the analysis again.

One of the breeders I spoke with described calcium leaching and she explained that every heat contributes to bone degradation and bad teeth. She said that little girl's heats are the cause for yorkie girls losing more teeth sooner than yorkie boys. That was an interesting point, I'll chat with my vet about it. Any other benefits I may not be considering that aren't already listed in the thread?