Decided not to dock tails!

[TheBooCrew]

Hi, I'm new to YorkieTalk.com. Our beautiful yorkie, Nahla had a liter of 4 pups on September 16th. The plan was to have the pups tails docked and dewclaws removed on the 18th. We had been second guessing the whole tail docking thing from the beginning. We hand-raised Nahla and her brother Toby because their mother retained Nahla's placenta (too long of a story to get in to), but Nahla and Toby both have their tails and (dewclaws for that matter) because it was felt they were already under enough stress from being away from their mother at 2.5 days old to endure these stressful procedures. We love Nahla and Toby's tails. We can't imagine them without their tails! Anyway, I always thought that the tail docking was painless. I'm not sure where I got that idea. Before the vet visit I looked up "docking a yorkies tail" on youtube. Well, I wanted to cry. I quickly turned the video off after the pup began to squeal. My daughter and I were continually discussing it on the way to the vet and at the vet. The vet tech came and took the pups and then the veterinarian came out and asked us to come into a room "I've got to be honest, I've never docked a yorkie's tail before. Do you want them longer, shorter, or?" He says. He told us his daughter had a yorkie that had a tail and he felt that it was beginning to become more common not to dock the tail of a yorkie. One of the vet techs looked up some information on the internet and read off some information that basically said that the only purpose to dock the tail and crop the ears on the yorkie is for AKC standards for show purposes. So, my daughter and I looked at each other and said "forget it, we don't want their tails docked." We decided to have their dewclaws done because those little claws on the sides their precious little paws can get caught on so many things. If someone wants a precious little yorkie it shouldn't matter if it has a tail or doesn't have a tail. We can't imagine having put these precious babies through the pain of having their tails docked and we don't regret the decision one bit! Their little paws from their dewclaws have healed right up! Furthermore, the yorkshire terrier originated in England and in April of 2007 tail docking was made illegal there except for working dogs! If you have a yorkshire terrier in England and show it, IT HAS A TAIL! Nahla's nickname is Nahla Boo so we call everyone "The Boo Crew". Even though everyone will be going to great homes at some point we temporarily named them. In order of birth they are:

Sammy Simba
Ruby Rose
Lucy Elizabeth
Chance Marie (don't ask about the middle name ;0)

Everyone including Nahla Boo continues to do wonderful. She is a terrific first time mother! I'll plan to post some pictures soon

[mugwee1]

to Y T. I'm glad you did not dock their tail's. I just love a Yorkie with a full tail. You need to post picture so we can watch them grow up. I may be looking for another Yorkie in the near furture. Would love to have one with a tail. Do you have any girl's? would like to get Luci a sister . But would have to see the parent's and meet you in person, and talk to your vet about their health. I'm just being cautious because I do not support puppy mills. Could you send me a picture of their parent's? And them. My email is ann458@centurylink.net Thanks would like to get to know you and your yorkies. It's still a toss up over a standard Yorkie or a Beiwer yorkie. They are all beautiful in my opinion.
Anne/Luci

[gemy]

Originally Posted by TheBooCrew

Hi, I'm new to YorkieTalk.com. Our beautiful yorkie, Nahla had a liter of 4 pups on September 16th. The plan was to have the pups tails docked and dewclaws removed on the 18th. We had been second guessing the whole tail docking thing from the beginning. r, shorter, or?" He says. He told us his daughter had a yorkie that had a tail One of the vet techs looked up some information on the internet and read off some information that [B]basically said that the only purpose to dock the tail and crop the ears on[/B] the yorkie is for AKC standards for show purposes.

First welcome to YT. Hope you enjoy your stay. I have bolded the information that is unfortunately incorrect from a "vet tech" that researched the internet. That is namely even in England and in the long history of the YT EARS have NOT BEEN CROPPED.

And again unfortunately despite what your "learned vet" who if he was learned would know at least how to dock a dog's tail and to what length, there were sound reasons in history to dock a Yorkies tail.

I just would like future readers to know there is a tad more to learn about docking a YT tail then is portrayed in this post.

I hope your litter and Mama does well, I'm sure your waiting list is agog and impatient to see these Yorkies pups.

[msyorktown]

Welcome to YT!! cant wait to see pics!

[yorkieluvme2]

Hi, I think I watched that video too and turned it off at the same spot. Ugh I dislike the tail docking and wish my puppy and dog still had theirs. Good for you! Welcome.

[LILBIT1]

pppft I googled one day yorkie tail dock.. Im so glad you didnt. I help my pup tighter after I wastched what she went through to get that nub she has. I would have been happy with a tail! But she came from the shelter. Was done befre she was dropped off at 7 weeks old. Hope you post pics of the precious ones! and Welcome to YT

[TxVicki]

I love the tails on Yorkies. My Allie has a full tail, and my late Molly had a full tail as well.

Welcome to YT. Would love to see some pictures.

[Teresa Ford]

Welcome to YT and congrats. I love tails nubby and flowing natural. I wish we could convince YTCA to change the standard of medium docked; to undocked tails will not be penlized.

[TheBooCrew]

Hi, thanks for the warm welcome! I had meant to specify in my post that there are 2 boys and 2 girls! Perfect! Boy, girl, girl, boy! We aren't excited or anything about these little guys-Haha! I will definitely post pics soon of Nahla and the crew. Then I can get you some pics of Dad and even Grandma & Grandpa. Oh, and we can't forget about Uncle Toby!

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by gemy

First welcome to YT. Hope you enjoy your stay. I have bolded the information that is unfortunately incorrect from a "vet tech" that researched the internet. That is namely even in England and in the long history of the YT EARS have NOT BEEN CROPPED.

And again unfortunately despite what your "learned vet" who if he was learned would know at least how to dock a dog's tail and to what length, there were sound reasons in history to dock a Yorkies tail.

I just would like future readers to know there is a tad more to learn about docking a YT tail then is portrayed in this post.

I hope your litter and Mama does well, I'm sure your waiting list is agog and impatient to see these Yorkies pups.

Excellant post! I'm afraid some will have to learn the hard way the advantages of tail docking. To the OP, I'm really glad you did the dewclaws, I've read many stories of the nails getting caught on something and the dewclaw being torn off.

[TheBooCrew]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Excellant post! I'm afraid some will have to learn the hard way the advantages of tail docking. To the OP, I'm really glad you did the dewclaws, I've read many stories of the nails getting caught on something and the dewclaw being torn off.

I don't want to get an argument started, but I would really like to know what advantages there are to having a Yorkshire Terrier's tail docked? I'm talking about a Yorkshire Terrier that is a loving member of your family. If there are so many advantages to it, then other countries would not have banned the practice of docking tails except in instances of certain working dogs. In my opinion, one of the only reasons Yorkshire Terriers still have their tails docked is because people think that's what a Yorkie is "supposed to look like". It's time to change the way people think! These precious babies are needlessly put through painful procedures. For what? Because that's what they are supposed to look like? Tail docking originated because of the "working dog". Times have changed though for the most part. The Yorkshire Terrier originated in England. England banned tail docking except for working dogs in 2007. TIME FOR THE UNITED STATES TO FOLLOW!!

From April 2007, new Animal Welfare Acts covering the UK, forbid tail docking except for certain working dogs. (Tail docking - the case for tail docking)

Sorry to get so heated about this, but I can't imagine having put those 5 day old babies that are back with their Mama through the pain of having their tails docked. I can't think of one instance where Nahla or Toby's tail has caused an issue!

[Yorkiemom1]

[QUOTE=TheBooCrew;4020354]..."........ I always thought that the tail docking was painless. I'm not sure where I got that idea. Before the vet visit I looked up "docking a yorkies tail" on youtube. Well, I wanted to cry. I quickly turned the video off after the pup began to squeal. ........ The vet tech came and took the pups and then the veterinarian came out and asked us to come into a room "I've got to be honest, I've never docked a yorkie's tail before. Do you want them longer, shorter, or?" He says. He told us his daughter had a yorkie that had a tail and he felt that it was beginning to become more common not to dock the tail of a yorkie. One of the vet techs looked up some information on the internet and read off some information that basically said that the only purpose to dock the tail and crop the ears on the yorkie is for AKC standards for show purposes. So, my daughter and I looked at each other and said "forget it, we don't want their tails docked." We decided to have their dewclaws done because those little claws on the sides their precious little paws can get caught on so many things. If someone wants a precious little yorkie it shouldn't matter if it has a tail or doesn't have a tail. We can't imagine having put these precious babies through the pain of having their tails docked and we don't regret the decision one bit! Their little paws from their dewclaws have healed right up! Furthermore, the yorkshire terrier originated in England and in April of 2007 tail docking was made illegal there except for working dogs! If you have a yorkshire terrier in England and show it, IT HAS A TAIL!......".

I feel compelled to respond. I think it is every one's individual decision as to whether they want to dock tails or not. I adore Yorkies and I think they have beautiful tails....I will indeed be THRILLED if and when it becomes a common, ACCEPTABLE practice to leave tails in tact. THAT being said, I just MUST address several issues in your post that are either NOT correct, or that at the VERY LEAST, cause the hair on my neck to stand on end!!! First, to put the CORRECT information forward. Whether you want tails docked or not, that is your decision and that is NOT my argument. Please do NOT think you can get an adequate education on "How or Why to Dock Tails", off youtube!!!!!!!!!! You need to learn HOW the nervous system in a puppy develops. I suggest you get educated on THAT using valid, medical and vet text books, not from "youtube"....after you have a clear working knowledge of the development and progression of the nervous system, you will KNOW the nerves in the tails are the last to develop, which is WHY they MUST be docked BEFORE day 5. On day 2-4, the babies may squeal when the tail is docked, but I can GUARANTEE you, YOUR LITTLE FEMALE JUST WENT THROUGH MORE PAIN AS A MAIDEN BITCH, GIVING BIRTH, THAN PUPPIES EXPERIENCE ~ BOTH IN INTENSITY AS WELL AS DURATION~ HAVING THEIR TAILS DOCKED. You have not given that a second thought! Have you ever seen a human baby get a vaccination???? They squall and scream like you are killing them....so is THAT justification to stop vaccinating you child/baby, just because they cry??? Puppies at 2-4 days of age go thru less trauma and pain than your child does getting a shot! (As far as dew claws, I want to add here, that a member just posted research that supports NOT removing dew claes, NOT because of the "pain" but because of the apparent tortion issues created on the dog's legs because removing dew claws takes away the gripping capabilities the dog needs, when running full out, and then planting its legs to turn on a dime. So the argument CAN be made, between the two procedures, you have opted to do the one that causes the most actual damage!) NEXT, ADDRESSING MY NEXT PROBLEM WITH YOUR POST: I am happy you did NOT let a vet that has NO working knowledge of HOW to dock tails, perform this procedure!!!!!! OMG!!!!! Just how much experience as a vet does this person have, IN GENERAL??? MORE importantly, how much experience does this vet have caring for Yorkies????? IF I WAS USING A VET OR A DOCTOR, AND THE DOCTOR AND HIS NURSE WAS LOOKING UP "INSTRUCTIONS ON HOW TO DO TAIL DOCKING YOURSELF" , on the computer, OR ON AN INSTRUCTION SHEET, OR "ON THE SIDE OF THE TAIL DOCKING KIT", I would RUN! RUN! RUN!!!! You have to stop and realize that this person is what is standing between you Yorkie and death's door!!! IF HE DOES NOT EVEN KNOW HOW TO DOCK TAILS, HOW MUCH OTHER KNOWLEDGE IS HE COMING UP SHORT IN? He FAILED miserably in his role as a teacher...he is supposed to know enough about vet medicine, that he can ACCURATELY teach YOU about care he is giving your dogs!!! He should be able to explane WHY he suggests doing the things he does to your dogs, and these decisions SHOULD be based on EVIDENCED BASED OUTCOMES, and NOT on the fact that he is CLUELESS on how or why he is or is not advocating doing something!!!! WHAT IS HE TALKING ABOUT WHEN HE ADDRESSES "DOCKING YORKIES EARS"????? THIS IS NOT DONE!!!!He has Yorkies confused with some other, larger breed!!!! What does he think about vaccination protocols??? IN MY HUMBLE OPINION, YOU NEED TO FIND ANOTHER VET, FOR THE BEST CARE AND FOR THE SAFETY OF YOUR PRECIOUS DOGS THAT YOU ADORE. You want the best for them....and if they get sick or are even critically ill, you need someone that has a thorough working knowledge of vet medicine....NOT someone that has to look up instructions on the computer before proceeding with saving you dog!

[Verbena]

I agree. If my vet has to look up tail docking on the Internet I would find a new vet. I would have ran out of there. What if you had an emergency, would he know what to do. I would not risk the lives of any of my fur balls

[TheBooCrew]

[quote=Yorkiemom1;4020455]

Originally Posted by TheBooCrew

..."........ I always thought that the tail docking was painless. I'm not sure where I got that idea. Before the vet visit I looked up "docking a yorkies tail" on youtube. Well, I wanted to cry. I quickly turned the video off after the pup began to squeal. ........ The vet tech came and took the pups and then the veterinarian came out and asked us to come into a room "I've got to be honest, I've never docked a yorkie's tail before. Do you want them longer, shorter, or?" He says. He told us his daughter had a yorkie that had a tail and he felt that it was beginning to become more common not to dock the tail of a yorkie. One of the vet techs looked up some information on the internet and read off some information that basically said that the only purpose to dock the tail and crop the ears on the yorkie is for AKC standards for show purposes. So, my daughter and I looked at each other and said "forget it, we don't want their tails docked." We decided to have their dewclaws done because those little claws on the sides their precious little paws can get caught on so many things. If someone wants a precious little yorkie it shouldn't matter if it has a tail or doesn't have a tail. We can't imagine having put these precious babies through the pain of having their tails docked and we don't regret the decision one bit! Their little paws from their dewclaws have healed right up! Furthermore, the yorkshire terrier originated in England and in April of 2007 tail docking was made illegal there except for working dogs! If you have a yorkshire terrier in England and show it, IT HAS A TAIL!......".

I feel compelled to respond. I think it is every one's individual decision as to whether they want to dock tails or not. I adore Yorkies and I think they have beautiful tails....I will indeed be THRILLED if and when it becomes a common, ACCEPTABLE practice to leave tails in tact. THAT being said, I just MUST address several issues in your post that are either NOT correct, or that at the VERY LEAST, cause the hair on my neck to stand on end!!! First, to put the CORRECT information forward. Whether you want tails docked or not, that is your decision and that is NOT my argument. Please do NOT think you can get an adequate education on "How or Why to Dock Tails", off youtube!!!!!!!!!! You need to learn HOW the nervous system in a puppy develops. I suggest you get educated on THAT using valid, medical and vet text books, not from "youtube"....after you have a clear working knowledge of the development and progression of the nervous system, you will KNOW the nerves in the tails are the last to develop, which is WHY they MUST be docked BEFORE day 5. On day 2-4, the babies may squeal when the tail is docked, but I can GUARANTEE you, YOUR LITTLE FEMALE JUST WENT THROUGH MORE PAIN AS A MAIDEN BITCH, GIVING BIRTH, THAN PUPPIES EXPERIENCE ~ BOTH IN INTENSITY AS WELL AS DURATION~ HAVING THEIR TAILS DOCKED. You have not given that a second thought! Have you ever seen a human baby get a vaccination???? They squall and scream like you are killing them....so is THAT justification to stop vaccinating you child/baby, just because they cry??? Puppies at 2-4 days of age go thru less trauma and pain than your child does getting a shot! (As far as dew claws, I want to add here, that a member just posted research that supports NOT removing dew claes, NOT because of the "pain" but because of the apparent tortion issues created on the dog's legs because removing dew claws takes away the gripping capabilities the dog needs, when running full out, and then planting its legs to turn on a dime. So the argument CAN be made, between the two procedures, you have opted to do the one that causes the most actual damage!) NEXT, ADDRESSING MY NEXT PROBLEM WITH YOUR POST: I am happy you did NOT let a vet that has NO working knowledge of HOW to dock tails, perform this procedure!!!!!! OMG!!!!! Just how much experience as a vet does this person have, IN GENERAL??? MORE importantly, how much experience does this vet have caring for Yorkies????? IF I WAS USING A VET OR A DOCTOR, AND THE DOCTOR AND HIS NURSE WAS LOOKING UP "INSTRUCTIONS ON HOW TO DO TAIL DOCKING YOURSELF" , on the computer, OR ON AN INSTRUCTION SHEET, OR "ON THE SIDE OF THE TAIL DOCKING KIT", I would RUN! RUN! RUN!!!! You have to stop and realize that this person is what is standing between you Yorkie and death's door!!! IF HE DOES NOT EVEN KNOW HOW TO DOCK TAILS, HOW MUCH OTHER KNOWLEDGE IS HE COMING UP SHORT IN? He FAILED miserably in his role as a teacher...he is supposed to know enough about vet medicine, that he can ACCURATELY teach YOU about care he is giving your dogs!!! He should be able to explane WHY he suggests doing the things he does to your dogs, and these decisions SHOULD be based on EVIDENCED BASED OUTCOMES, and NOT on the fact that he is CLUELESS on how or why he is or is not advocating doing something!!!! WHAT IS HE TALKING ABOUT WHEN HE ADDRESSES "DOCKING YORKIES EARS"????? THIS IS NOT DONE!!!!He has Yorkies confused with some other, larger breed!!!! What does he think about vaccination protocols??? IN MY HUMBLE OPINION, YOU NEED TO FIND ANOTHER VET, FOR THE BEST CARE AND FOR THE SAFETY OF YOUR PRECIOUS DOGS THAT YOU ADORE. You want the best for them....and if they get sick or are even critically ill, you need someone that has a thorough working knowledge of vet medicine....NOT someone that has to look up instructions on the computer before proceeding with saving you dog!

First off-who are you to say what I have or haven't given a second thought-referring to the pain of the birth experience versus tail docking?

I never said anything about the vet "docking yorkie ears"

I never said the vet hadn't ever docked any dog's tail. He has just never docked a Yorkie's tail and that doesn't mean he doesn't have experience taking care of Yorkie's either. It just means he has never docked a Yorkie's tail.

I never said I was trying to become educated on Youtube about tail docking. I just wanted to see what was involved. Becoming educated on it was NOT my intention!

Seriously, you're comparing the pain a pup feels from tail docking to the pain a child feels at the injection site from an immunization (that's required by law I might add). I'm a registered nurse and used to work at an immunization clinic every other Tuesday. I've given my share of immunizations to children. Gimme a break, there's no comparison!

Who said the vet and the vet tech went on the internet to look up instructions on "how to do tail docking yourself"? I didn't.

I was only trying to talk about the experience we had, not give out information about tail docking. I definitely stated my opinion for sure. I believe the only factual information I stated was that England banned tail docking in 2007. You can't correct opinions.

My suggestion-YOU NEED TO QUIT READING BETWEEN THE LINES AND COMING TO YOUR OWN CONCLUSIONS

[TheBooCrew]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Excellant post! I'm afraid some will have to learnthe hard way the advantages of tail docking. To the OP, I'm really glad you didthe dewclaws, I've read many stories of the nails getting caught on somethingand the dewclaw being torn off.

** I don't want to get in an argument started,but I would really like to know what advantages there are to having a YorkshireTerrier's tail docked in today's world? I'm talking about a Yorkshire Terrier that is a lovingmember of your family, not a working dog. If there are so many advantages to it, then othercountries would not have banned the practice of docking tails except ininstances of certain working dogs. In my opinion, one of the only reasonsYorkshire Terriers still have their tails docked is because people think that'swhat a Yorkie is "supposed to look like". It's time to change the waypeople think! These precious babies are needlessly put through painfulprocedures. For what? Because that's what they are supposed to look like? Taildocking originated because of the "working dog". Times have changedthough for the most part. The Yorkshire Terrier originated in England. Englandbanned tail docking except for working dogs in 2007. TIME FOR THE UNITEDSTATES TO FOLLOW (in my opinion).

FromApril 2007, new Animal Welfare Acts covering the UK, forbid tail docking except for certain working dogs. (http://www.cdb.org/case4dock.htm)

Sorry toget so heated about this, but I can't imagine having put those 5 day old babiesthat are back with their Mama through the pain of having their tails docked. Ican't think of one instance where Nahla or Toby's tail has caused an issue!