Color discrimination - what's the dilly-o? - YorkieTalk.com Forums

Bhikku · 11-19-2008, 12:00 PM

I've read on the Yorkshire Terrier Club of America's website that they do not support the breeding of "gold" yorkies or "Biewer Yorkshire terriers" (piebalds)...and the AKC considers any colors but blue/black/gold/tan combinations to be a disqualification...

Does anyone know why they're so adamant against widening the standard for the Yorkshire terrier? What's wrong with having more than one standard color? Is there a historical reason behind the blue and tan coat, other than "that's the way it's always been"...?

I'm just curious. I'm considering a Biewer Yorkshire terrier in the future at some point. I think they're gorgeous little dogs.

Nancy1999 · 11-19-2008, 12:21 PM

Every breed has a standard, and once you vary the standard too much you are watering down what makes the yorkie look like a yorkie. Some people would like to change the coat type; others would like to change the ears to include longer floppier ears. There's always going to be people who want something different. The Biewer people are trying to get recognition as a separate breed and AKC status; will people be telling them to include Yorkies without the piebald markings? Many people love the Biewers, and they have very strict standards, the Parti, on the other hand, is just a recessive gene that occasionally shows up when a puppy has received the recessive gene from each parent. There is no standard or special makings, and all Parti's look different. The YTCA frowns on breeding the recessive, and that's their choice. Maybe if there were lots and lots of great looking Yorkies who met standard and were healthy, the YTCA would open the dorr to more variations. For now, there doesn't seem to be an overload of the standard. By dog breed standards the Yorkshire Terrier is a relatively new breed, and keeping tighter restrictions for a while is probably best for the breed.

chachi · 11-19-2008, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bhikku

I've read on the Yorkshire Terrier Club of America's website that they do not support the breeding of "gold" yorkies or "Biewer Yorkshire terriers" (piebalds)...and the AKC considers any colors but blue/black/gold/tan combinations to be a disqualification...

Does anyone know why they're so adamant against widening the standard for the Yorkshire terrier? What's wrong with having more than one standard color? Is there a historical reason behind the blue and tan coat, other than "that's the way it's always been"...?

I'm just curious. I'm considering a Biewer Yorkshire terrier in the future at some point. I think they're gorgeous little dogs.

Biewers are from germany and have their own club. I dont even think they want to be associated as a yorkie terrier but want to be recognized as their own breed.

bchgirl · 11-19-2008, 12:37 PM

YTCA is the parent club of the yorkshire terrier and as such they set the standard for the breed. Biewers are completely unrelated to this club.

Bhikku · 11-19-2008, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Many people love the Biewers, and they have very strict standards, the Parti, on the other hand, is just a recessive gene that occasionally shows up when a puppy has received the recessive gene from each parent.

Ah, that's it then. I didn't realize the Parti yorkies and the Biewers were two different types.

yorkiekist · 11-19-2008, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bhikku

I've read on the Yorkshire Terrier Club of America's website that they do not support the breeding of "gold" yorkies or "Biewer Yorkshire terriers" (piebalds)...and the AKC considers any colors but blue/black/gold/tan combinations to be a disqualification...

Does anyone know why they're so adamant against widening the standard for the Yorkshire terrier? What's wrong with having more than one standard color? Is there a historical reason behind the blue and tan coat, other than "that's the way it's always been"...?

I'm just curious. I'm considering a Biewer Yorkshire terrier in the future at some point. I think they're gorgeous little dogs.

The YTCA does not believe that the parti yorkie and the other odd ball colors are pure Yorkie. The Yorkie does not carry the pieball gene. Research the history of the Yorkie. It has already been established that the Biewer is not a pure Yorkie. It probably started as a shih-tzu or papillon Yorkie cross. This is most likely the same for the parti Yorkie. There have been way too many irresponsible "breeders" before DNA tests that were only "in it" for the $$$$. I have witnessed first hand how some of these "breeders" have produced parti colored "yorkies" and believe me, they were not pure Yorkie. Then these "breeders" ask outlandish amounts of $$ for these "rare" colored puppies. These are two of the reasons that YTCA will not change their standards: no proof that they are 100% Yorkie and YTcA does not support "breeders" that only breed for $$$ and are not interested in breeding to the breed standard. These "breeders" do not have the best interest of the breed as the #1 priority.
There are others on this forum that have other opinions about this issue.

Bhikku · 11-19-2008, 01:47 PM

Gotcha. I didn't realize the Yorkshire didn't carry a piebald gene.

my2boyz · 11-19-2008, 02:08 PM

Bhikku...the Biewer is different from the Parti. The Biewer is from Germany, they are German and U.S. registered although not AKc recognized. There is a standard set forth by the German club and that is the same standard we follow in the U.S. The Biewer keeps it's long tail where the Parti tail is docked like a Yorkie and the Biewer has a standard for color placement where the Parti doesn't. I have always been a Yorkie person through and through but when I met the Biewer I was hooked! I still love Yorkies but the laid back personality of the Biewer pulled me in...they are quiet yet playful, loving and loyal...not to mention simply beautiful with their striking colors and plume like tail. I have 4 Biewers and I don't think you would be disappointed if you decide to add one to your family.

As for the Biewer not being from the Yorkie...well...I won't even get into that controversy.

Bhikku · 11-19-2008, 02:18 PM

They're awfully cute. I bet they're hard to find in my part of the country though...it's harder to find the "rare" breeds here...

4lilyorks · 11-19-2008, 02:20 PM

The Biewer comes from two Yorkshire Terriers that were bred in Germany. Germany sees them as a tri-color yorkie. They did seperate them from the yorkies in Germany and set a standard for them so they could be shown. Most in Germany still breed back to the yorkie to increase the gene pool as it is very limited.

No where is there proof that anything has for sure been bred into the Biewer lines. They do test different because of the pieball gene but it is unclear if anything was bred into them at this point.

Sugar's Mom · 11-19-2008, 03:02 PM

i just 'googled" and found this: It is copied and pasted

Biewer Yorkshire a la' Pom Pon, pronounced (Bee-vir) was started by in January of 1984. Mr. Werner Biewer and his wife, Mrs. Gertrud Biewer, residents of Germany, founded the first Biewer Yorkshire "Schneeflocken von Friedheck". This occurred when they bred two traditional yorkies, "Darling von Friedheck" and "Fru Fru von Friedheck" (both youth winners at Dortmund in 1981) who both happened to share the same recessive piebald gene.

Mr. Biewer worked on this finding to perfect the coloring which were white across the chest, stomach and legs, This also included the tip of the tail. He began showing the Biewer in 1988. He then worked towards having the dogs recognized as their own breed. His first attempt, with the VDH failed but later found success in the ACH (or so it was called while still in operation) and the breed was finally declared a breed of its own.

In 1997, Mr. Werner Biewer passed away but his efforts for his treasured breed will grace homes of Biewer owners and will live on through their work.

To date, the American Kennel Club (AKC) does not recognize the Biewer as a breed. In Dec. of 2007 the American Rare Breed Association(ARBA) accepted the Biewer Terrier as a rare breed. The Biewer Terrier Club of America, Inc.(BTCA,Inc.) was accepted as the National breed club at this time.

[edit] References

Sugar's Mom · 11-19-2008, 03:06 PM

More:

The Biewer was originally a banded/belted genetic recessive gene occurrence from 2 Yorkshire Terriers but unscrupulous breeders have tried to match the looks of the Biewer Yorkshire by crossing the Yorkshire Terrier and the Shih-Tzu. The crossing will produce the parti/piebald white markings from the Shih-Tzu influence after the second generation but these crossbred dogs would take generations before they would produce the hair coat and the facial features seen in the Biewer Yorkshire. If the dog being presented to you as a Biewer Yorkshire has wavy and/or course hair, or the facial features or body style of the Shih-Tzu then it's highly unlikely that it is a TRUE purebred Biewer Yorkie.

also googled.

here is the source:BIEWER YORKIE History

bchgirl · 11-19-2008, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bhikku

They're awfully cute. I bet they're hard to find in my part of the country though...it's harder to find the "rare" breeds here...

While I don't know any breeders specifically in AL....there are some in FL, SC, and other surrounding states.

bchgirl · 11-19-2008, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bhikku

Gotcha. I didn't realize the Yorkshire didn't carry a piebald gene.

YTCA claims that, however....AKC dna'd parti yorkies to determine parentage and they were indeed yorkshire terriers. This is the reason parti's are allowed to be registered AKC.

zenzele · 11-19-2008, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bhikku

I've read on the Yorkshire Terrier Club of America's website that they do not support the breeding of "gold" yorkies or "Biewer Yorkshire terriers" (piebalds)...and the AKC considers any colors but blue/black/gold/tan combinations to be a disqualification...

Does anyone know why they're so adamant against widening the standard for the Yorkshire terrier? What's wrong with having more than one standard color? Is there a historical reason behind the blue and tan coat, other than "that's the way it's always been"...?

I'm just curious. I'm considering a Biewer Yorkshire terrier in the future at some point. I think they're gorgeous little dogs.

Based on various readings I've done these are considered genetic defects that can lead to health issues ....some of the info I came across...

Teacup yorkies, Chocolate yorkies, parti-colored yorkies, Yorkie Breeder info

Young Yorkies Present AKC Standard Yorkshire Terriers Explained by Carolyn Hensley

Yorkie puppy coat color stages within the first two years of maturity - yorkie hair color

11-19-2008, 12:21 PM	#2
Nancy1999 I ♥ Joey & Ralphie! Donating Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Arizona Posts: 25,396 Blog Entries: 2	Every breed has a standard, and once you vary the standard too much you are watering down what makes the yorkie look like a yorkie. Some people would like to change the coat type; others would like to change the ears to include longer floppier ears. There's always going to be people who want something different. The Biewer people are trying to get recognition as a separate breed and AKC status; will people be telling them to include Yorkies without the piebald markings? Many people love the Biewers, and they have very strict standards, the Parti, on the other hand, is just a recessive gene that occasionally shows up when a puppy has received the recessive gene from each parent. There is no standard or special makings, and all Parti's look different. The YTCA frowns on breeding the recessive, and that's their choice. Maybe if there were lots and lots of great looking Yorkies who met standard and were healthy, the YTCA would open the dorr to more variations. For now, there doesn't seem to be an overload of the standard. By dog breed standards the Yorkshire Terrier is a relatively new breed, and keeping tighter restrictions for a while is probably best for the breed. __________________ NancyJoey Proud members of the CrAzYcLuB and YAP! ** Just Say No to Puppymills – Join YAP! Yorkshire Terrier Club of America – Breeder Referrals

11-19-2008, 12:37 PM	#4
bchgirl Donating YT 10K Club Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: at da beach Posts: 15,444 Blog Entries: 2	YTCA is the parent club of the yorkshire terrier and as such they set the standard for the breed. Biewers are completely unrelated to this club. __________________ Deb, Reese, Reggie, Frazier, Libby, Sidney, & Bodie Trace & Ramsey who watch over us www.biewersbythebay.com

11-19-2008, 03:06 PM	#12
Sugar's Mom BANNED! Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Kentucky Posts: 9,248	More: The Biewer was originally a banded/belted genetic recessive gene occurrence from 2 Yorkshire Terriers but unscrupulous breeders have tried to match the looks of the Biewer Yorkshire by crossing the Yorkshire Terrier and the Shih-Tzu. The crossing will produce the parti/piebald white markings from the Shih-Tzu influence after the second generation but these crossbred dogs would take generations before they would produce the hair coat and the facial features seen in the Biewer Yorkshire. If the dog being presented to you as a Biewer Yorkshire has wavy and/or course hair, or the facial features or body style of the Shih-Tzu then it's highly unlikely that it is a TRUE purebred Biewer Yorkie. also googled. here is the source:BIEWER YORKIE History Last edited by Sugar's Mom; 11-19-2008 at 03:07 PM.

11-19-2008, 12:00 PM	#1
Bhikku YT Addict Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Huntsville, AL Posts: 274	Color discrimination - what's the dilly-o? I've read on the Yorkshire Terrier Club of America's website that they do not support the breeding of "gold" yorkies or "Biewer Yorkshire terriers" (piebalds)...and the AKC considers any colors but blue/black/gold/tan combinations to be a disqualification... Does anyone know why they're so adamant against widening the standard for the Yorkshire terrier? What's wrong with having more than one standard color? Is there a historical reason behind the blue and tan coat, other than "that's the way it's always been"...? I'm just curious. I'm considering a Biewer Yorkshire terrier in the future at some point. I think they're gorgeous little dogs.

11-19-2008, 01:47 PM	#7
Bhikku YT Addict Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Huntsville, AL Posts: 274	Gotcha. I didn't realize the Yorkshire didn't carry a piebald gene.

11-19-2008, 02:08 PM	#8
my2boyz Donating YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In my house :) Posts: 5,219	Bhikku...the Biewer is different from the Parti. The Biewer is from Germany, they are German and U.S. registered although not AKc recognized. There is a standard set forth by the German club and that is the same standard we follow in the U.S. The Biewer keeps it's long tail where the Parti tail is docked like a Yorkie and the Biewer has a standard for color placement where the Parti doesn't. I have always been a Yorkie person through and through but when I met the Biewer I was hooked! I still love Yorkies but the laid back personality of the Biewer pulled me in...they are quiet yet playful, loving and loyal...not to mention simply beautiful with their striking colors and plume like tail. I have 4 Biewers and I don't think you would be disappointed if you decide to add one to your family. As for the Biewer not being from the Yorkie...well...I won't even get into that controversy.

11-19-2008, 02:18 PM	#9
Bhikku YT Addict Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Huntsville, AL Posts: 274	They're awfully cute. I bet they're hard to find in my part of the country though...it's harder to find the "rare" breeds here...

11-19-2008, 02:20 PM	#10
4lilyorks Donating Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: tampa Posts: 71	The Biewer comes from two Yorkshire Terriers that were bred in Germany. Germany sees them as a tri-color yorkie. They did seperate them from the yorkies in Germany and set a standard for them so they could be shown. Most in Germany still breed back to the yorkie to increase the gene pool as it is very limited. No where is there proof that anything has for sure been bred into the Biewer lines. They do test different because of the pieball gene but it is unclear if anything was bred into them at this point.

11-19-2008, 03:02 PM	#11
Sugar's Mom BANNED! Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Kentucky Posts: 9,248	i just 'googled" and found this: It is copied and pasted Biewer Yorkshire a la' Pom Pon, pronounced (Bee-vir) was started by in January of 1984. Mr. Werner Biewer and his wife, Mrs. Gertrud Biewer, residents of Germany, founded the first Biewer Yorkshire "Schneeflocken von Friedheck". This occurred when they bred two traditional yorkies, "Darling von Friedheck" and "Fru Fru von Friedheck" (both youth winners at Dortmund in 1981) who both happened to share the same recessive piebald gene. Mr. Biewer worked on this finding to perfect the coloring which were white across the chest, stomach and legs, This also included the tip of the tail. He began showing the Biewer in 1988. He then worked towards having the dogs recognized as their own breed. His first attempt, with the VDH failed but later found success in the ACH (or so it was called while still in operation) and the breed was finally declared a breed of its own. In 1997, Mr. Werner Biewer passed away but his efforts for his treasured breed will grace homes of Biewer owners and will live on through their work. To date, the American Kennel Club (AKC) does not recognize the Biewer as a breed. In Dec. of 2007 the American Rare Breed Association(ARBA) accepted the Biewer Terrier as a rare breed. The Biewer Terrier Club of America, Inc.(BTCA,Inc.) was accepted as the National breed club at this time. [edit] References