a breeder of Tiny yorkies

[feminvstr]

Originally Posted by sylvan

I would never suggest that someone buy a pup with no health guarantee. Vets can only tell so much at a puppy exam and many genetic problems don't evidence themselves until much later.

so very true this breeders explaination was since the baby was 9 weeks old and 10oz she was old enough for the vet to give her a clean bill of health and the vet would guarantee she had no genetic defects, I told Eric if that were the case then she should have no problem as to signing something assures this for 1 year. she refused, I said run dont walk out of her house!

[SoCalyorkiLvr]

Originally Posted by feminvstr

If I were in search of a tiny I would sooner buy from a breeder that purposely breeds smaller rather than someone own accidently had a runt and decided the price should triple because of size. [/url]

I was just wondering your rationale for this. I happen to agree and it is because I think they are healthier than "runts" and have less genetic problems as a rule because the reputable breeder would have been sure to eliminate any defects from the line.

Of course there is always the chance that you will get a disreputable breeder who doesn't "breed out" the defects.

[SoCalyorkiLvr]

Originally Posted by feminvstr

.
I talked to Yorkmont the other day for quiet awhile, she is very sweet, knowledgable and willing to talk the night away conversing about yorkies, breeding all sizes and shapes and showing.

She purposely breeds small not by bringing down her stock but breeding into the tinier lines. Therefore she intimately knows her past pedigrees when it come to health, genetics and size there are no surprises. She does it with great care and keeps her babies up to a year (if needed) before she will place them. She explains she has a long process that must be followed when adopting one of her kids including she sends a 200 page care package!! Yikes!!! Her pricing for the tinies start at $3000. She breeds the look of a yorkshire terrier not the flavor of the month.
[/url]

Are you recommending Yorkmont for the members here who are looking for tinies? Is she a friend of yours? Is she a member here? Just curious.

I found Yorkmont on Puppyfind several months ago when I was looking for Ava. Her puppies are the most expensive on Puppyfind taht I saw. They were typically $5000 with many at $7500. I never really pursued it because I thought the prices at that time were too high for me and I couldn't afford it. I cannot recommend or not recommend this breeder because I have not met her over the phone or in person.

I just checked out her website again and her dogs are cute but the coloring is a little dark for me and, in my opinion, she does not "breed to the standard" because she breeds for tinies and for the "babydoll face" which is specifically disallowed by the YTCA. A YTCA breeder cannot use the words "teacup" or "babydoll face" under their Code of Ethics. I personally prefer a breeder who breeds for that look and I am not offended by the use of the term "teacup" when it is used to designate size, as in "anything less than 5 lbs".

I don't understand the "flavor of the month" comment. Tinies with babydoll faces are what is currently in demand and that is what she breeds so I think she does breed what people are currently asking for and she is demanding the price they are willing to pay.

Also, I met with many breeders here in southern California who do just what Yorkmont does including Tanya of Tanyastinytots.com who is a member here, charges less for most or hers and would breed out any defects immediately.

Tanya's lines come from long established lines here in California that produce tinies and there are "no surprises" with her either. She will also keep a tiny up to 6 months or more if necessary to guarantee health and for the well being of the pup. Her mentor has a tiny that she sold recently but she still has her and she probably won't let her go until she is 9 or 10 months. While I did not buy a pup from her I did spend a lot of time on the phone with her and met her in person at her home and met all of her dogs. She is a small hobby breeder and she is truly wonderful and her babies are gorgeous! Teri of Bowwow Couture has her Sweet Pea and is also a member here. Teri actually flew out from New Jersey and stayed with Tanya so you have two wonderful references right here on Yorkie Talk if you are looking for a breeder who breeds for tinies.

And let me tell you, when I was there her house was full of the shipments she had just received of all of the goodies that were going in the "puppy packages" for her new babies forever homes! There were blankets and toys and beds and they were all upscale and fabulous. made me want to by one of hers just to get the puppy package! lol

And to answer your question...yes, I would pay $3000 or more for a yorkie if it was what I was looking for, and I would be more than happy to do it as I believe that is a small price for what I get back from the yorkies I have! My yorkies are priceless and I feel comfortable with those prices because I know the breeders take great care of these little ones and they are time consuming. I feel better compensating them fairly so they don't feel like they have to take a loss to give the puppies and the mother the very best care!

In California, southern California especially, that is the "going price" and plenty of people will pay it. In fact there are usually waiting lists for this group of breeders who breed for the tiny babydoll face.

[Snow Yorkies]

I started out breeding with the tinies or the smaller yorkies and maybe I can shed a little light on this subject. The cost of these pups come from various factors. You have the expense of purchasing the smaller yorkies. The fact that they will throw small litters,(one to two) and you shouldn't breed them as many times as you would a 5 to 6 pound yorkies, pregnancies are a little harder on the smaller ones I think. Then you go through the expense of sometimes having to have them AI'd. Then you have ultra sounds done through out the pregnancy (or at least I did) just to check on the babies to make sure they aren't getting two big for the mother to whelp, then there is the cost of a c-section sometimes. There is a lot involved as well as expense. So it is easy to think that we are over charging for these pups, but I have the vet bills that could maybe change a few minds. Of course I didn't sell mine for $3000.00 either. But most breeders can tell you that there are a lot of costs to raising dogs. Premium food, vaccinations, regular vet checks, vitamins, worming, heart guard, frontline, taking in the pups at least 4 times, the list goes on. We do it for the love of the breed, we aren't making a killing. I since stopped breeding the tinies, it is to expensive for me. I fell in love with the Biewers and I am starting my program over with them and a few good quality yorkies for show. But I just wanted to share the financial part of breeding. I feel the same way all of you do that my Yorkies deserve the best and get the best. To do this I am willing spend what I need to for their care. I hope this helps in understanding you are paying for what we are paying for, to bring your new family member into your home.

[SoCalyorkiLvr]

Originally Posted by shelbysmom

yes, some of them do. One breeder I saw sold her tiny Yorkies for twice as much as her standards(1500. vs. 3500 up) and she said it's because they are tiny. (at least she was honest about that part) Her runt of that litter was $10,000.

The problem with someone trying to get tiny is they have runts too! Try for standard and you may get a 2.5-3.lb runt. Try for the 3lb. and the runts are REALLY small.

There are as many types of breeders as there are appearances in Yorkies. Everyone needs to do their homework, be ready to ask questions and decide what is ethical for them. Even breeders who share breeding stock do not always agree.

This is how we met, huh Donna? It was a wierd night but it worked out well in the end.

Your last comment is so true! So many of these breeders in Socal are networked and help each other out but they all have different philosophies and "looks" they like. Some are YTCA while others show but don't belong to YTCA and others don't show, but have been breeders for 30 years and more.

By and large they were all reputable and really cared about their dogs in my opinion.

I learned a lot in my puppy search and I know you did too! it was fun but I am glad Shelby and Ava are finally home where they belong!!

[SoCalyorkiLvr]

Originally Posted by Snow Yorkies

I started out breeding with the tinies or the smaller yorkies and maybe I can shed a little light on this subject. The cost of these pups come from various factors. You have the expense of purchasing the smaller yorkies. The fact that they will throw small litters,(one to two) and you shouldn't breed them as many times as you would a 5 to 6 pound yorkies, pregnancies are a little harder on the smaller ones I think. Then you go through the expense of sometimes having to have them AI'd. Then you have ultra sounds done through out the pregnancy (or at least I did) just to check on the babies to make sure they aren't getting two big for the mother to whelp, then there is the cost of a c-section sometimes. There is a lot involved as well as expense. So it is easy to think that we are over charging for these pups, but I have the vet bills that could maybe change a few minds. Of course I didn't sell mine for $3000.00 either. But most breeders can tell you that there are a lot of costs to raising dogs. Premium food, vaccinations, regular vet checks, vitamins, worming, heart guard, frontline, taking in the pups at least 4 times, the list goes on. We do it for the love of the breed, we aren't making a killing. I since stopped breeding the tinies, it is to expensive for me. I fell in love with the Biewers and I am starting my program over with them and a few good quality yorkies for show. But I just wanted to share the financial part of breeding. I feel the same way all of you do that my Yorkies deserve the best and get the best. To do this I am willing spend what I need to for their care. I hope this helps in understanding you are paying for what we are paying for, to bring your new family member into your home.

Thank you for sharing your experiences! I learned something because I never
thought about the females being more expensive to purchase. I think the breeders I met use the standard 5 lb females but use tiny males who have a history of throwing tiny puppies. The males would cost more for sure.

What is "AI'd"? Articially inseminated?

[SoCalyorkiLvr]

Originally Posted by StewiesMom

Someone will pay $4k, but it is probably going to be someone with a ton of money and who will think of their dog as an accessory. As hard as I try, I CANNOT fathom why 4lbs isn't small enough or even 3lbs, unless you have a valid reason like Brittie who had a tiny already. Otherwise, I don't get it and don't see a reason for IMO "ruining" a beautiful breed of dogs who are small to begin with.

In my opinion 3 and 4 lbs is a tiny so it is tiny enough for most people. Anything under 5 lbs is a tiny in my opinion. All four of the yorkies I have purchased recently will be between 3 and 4 lbs as adults.

The "extreme tinies" (2-3 lbs full grown) are very rare and can command $5000-10,000 depending on other factors but I am not sure I would want one that small because I would be a basket case worrting about it 24/7! Now, if you handed me one I wouldn't turn it down, mind you!!

Why do you label people with money as being "people who will think of their dog as an accessory"? If I had to generalize, which I hate to do, I think it is just the opposite. People with a ton of money don't have to impress anyone. It is people who are trying to "look like they have a ton of money" or impress others who will be more likely to think of their dog as an accessory. JMHO.

[sshaw]

I have said it many times now, but I will say it again. I have had 4 tinies and never had a health issue with any of them. I am not offended in the least by people asking if it is a "Tea Cup or Runt", for it is only a descriptive term. "Baby Doll Face", is also nothing but a description, why all the fuss?

Without having to back through all the posts, someone said quite rightly said, that 20% will throw a tiny. It is just nature and I applaud it. My 3 girls were the most wonderful, beautiful, and loving babies I have ever had, and Dennis my first male the jury is still out. He is cute, healthy, and more active than I am you'sto, but maybe he will calm down a little.

The picture of the 9 oz pup was adorable, and I would snap her up in a minute. I think she was 1500.00, which is at this time just about the going rate. I think the prices have sky-rocketed because of the internet. My fist girl was 400.00, second 600.00, then 750.00. I recall the breeder telling me at the time that if he was located in California, he could get 2000.00, but he refused to ship. He now charges 1500.00, which I think is high, but if he can get it then thats what he's going to do.

They have all been precious and I have adored them with all my heart! I wish I could go back in time.

Well, I am babbling, but it's late. I just don't know what I am saying anymore. Sorry

[Brittie123]

Originally Posted by sshaw

Without having to back through all the posts, someone said quite rightly said, that 20% will throw a tiny. It is just nature and I applaud it.

That was me Sshaw! Terri Shumsky explained the numbers to me a while back when I was concerned about getting Mia a playmate and not wanted to go with a breeder who bred specifically for tinies. She told me to go with a reputable YTCA breeder and just wait because all breeders of standards will have tinies occationally, it just happens, breeding is not predictable and nature throws the tinies every now and then. You just have to be patient.

I am so glad I learned more about it in getting my second puppy, as I haven't had one moments trouble with her and she is the picture of health!

[Brittie123]

I know I keep repeating myself but in my personal experience, it is very clear that if you want a tiny and have your heart set on it and know the responsibility and stress you are taking on, the only way to increase your chances of getting a healthy sound pup is going with a breeder who strives for the breed standard, because they do get tinies in their litters. You do have to be patient as it might take a while but well worth it when you consider the expense involved.

And you definitely shouldn't have to spend $5000-$10000 to get a heathy pup. JMO

[minniemn]

I don't understand why it is ok according to this thread for people to breed tiny dogs (3lb female w/ 2 lb male- I think I read in this thread) but when a person asks for advice on breeding and their female is under 5lbs everyone jumps in and says "get her spade she is too small". And many comment on breed standard.

So which is it, is it ok now to breed for tinies with tiny females? Is it ok now to forget about breed standard as long as they are tinies?

There are many people who preach breed standard to many people, unless of course it is something they want to do then breed standard seems to not matter any more- standard is 4-7 lbs. correct?

I think that if we are encouraging people to breed tinies (by searching them out and buying them), which is very risky for tiny females, then we are not doing what is best for the breed, we are encouraging people to put dogs at risk because of supply and demand.

I am not talking about the 20% of tiny ones that happen. I am talking about people who breed for tinies on purpose. Which many have stated on this thread they have done or know someone who does.

I think it is sad to promote this, considering how risky it is for the small female who is having these tiny pups.

This is just my opinion, it is frustrating dealing with people who preach one way, but do another. I am so sick of hearing "breed standard" from people who then turn around and throw "breed standard" out the window to benifit them.... if you are going to preach it, then follow it... don't use it as an excuse to talk people out of breeding, if you yourself don't follow the standard. By the way "tinies" under 4 lbs are not breed standard, and breeding small dogs to get tinies is also not following the AKC Breed standards. You can't have it both ways....

[sshaw]

Brittie123,

Your darker female looks a lot like my beloved Raisin. God she was so beautiful! I have a front harness, like the "Baby on Board carriers, and I would take her bike riding. She just loved that!

You can't replace them, you just bring up another little angel.

Take good care of them, they are surely beautiful little dolls.

Sue

[red98vett]

minniemn ...I SO agree with you and I really have a hard time wrapping my head around the post above that stated people should expect to pay 5-10 THOUSAND dollars for a small yorkie ....I keep seeing this said and it amazes me that someone thinks this is an acceptable price.

NO WAY should anyone in their right mind pay that.....Why is so much infomation I see here so way off sometimes ? PAYING that much is getting GOUGED and it's just wrong for anyone to ask that amount. THAT is capitalizing on a new fad for smaller breeds and such a scam.

As much as I ADORE yorkies and my girls are priceless to me - and even if I HAD that kind of money - I wouldn't do it and would NEVER say that's a fair price or should anyone expect to pay that.

Yes - some totally greedy people are asking these huge prices - but there is NO legitiment reason for anyone to pay it and seeing it's OK to charge that is steering the public into accepting this practice from some dis-reputable breeders who are SO into money they can fool people into thinking a TEN thousand yorkie is better than a 2 thousand one.

I think we had this same conversation yesterday and lots of it was deleted...so I am out of this - but still had to throw in my 2 cents - I would hate to see a new member think 5-10 THOU is getting a deal on a yorkie when there are GORGEOUS yorkies out there priced reasonably and fair.

[red98vett]

Originally Posted by Brittie123

I know I keep repeating myself but in my personal experience, it is very clear that if you want a tiny and have your heart set on it and know the responsibility and stress you are taking on, the only way to increase your chances of getting a healthy sound pup is going with a breeder who strives for the breed standard, because they do get tinies in their litters. You do have to be patient as it might take a while but well worth it when you consider the expense involved.

And you definitely shouldn't have to spend $5000-$10000 to get a heathy pup. JMO

lol...Brittany - just saw this after I posted- THANK you - and you are SO RIGHT !

[red98vett]

Originally Posted by SoCalyorkiLvr

In my opinion 3 and 4 lbs is a tiny so it is tiny enough for most people. Anything under 5 lbs is a tiny in my opinion. All four of the yorkies I have purchased recently will be between 3 and 4 lbs as adults.

The "extreme tinies" (2-3 lbs full grown) are very rare and can command $5000-10,000 depending on other factors but I am not sure I would want one that small because I would be a basket case worrting about it 24/7! Now, if you handed me one I wouldn't turn it down, mind you!!

Why do you label people with money as being "people who will think of their dog as an accessory"? If I had to generalize, which I hate to do, I think it is just the opposite. People with a ton of money don't have to impress anyone. It is people who are trying to "look like they have a ton of money" or impress others who will be more likely to think of their dog as an accessory. JMHO.

May I ask here HOW LONG exactly have you had yorkies ? Isn't it very recently just got your very 1st yorkie ..? Like 6-8 months then you quickly got 2 more ?

When I see you stating yorkies can command up to 10 thousand dollars I really have to wonder where you are looking and why you think this is something to tell people they should expect to pay.

It's not.