A question for breeders - YorkieTalk.com Forums

Lady of Yorkies · 07-29-2005, 07:04 PM

When you have sold a puppy and for some reason the new parents can't keep the puppy, do you refund the money and if so how do you figure out how much to give back at different ages? Say, if they find out within two months, how much do you give back? And if your contract says you have first refusal and the dog is a year or older, how much do you give back?

Also, why the difference in a one year genetic guarantee and a three year guarantee?

velobabe · 07-29-2005, 07:34 PM

I'm not a breeder but the breeder who I got Piper from states specifically in her sales agreement that... Breeder/Seller assumes no responsibility for the puppy after leaving the premises; medical expenses, landlord’s disapproval, allergy to animals, disagreement of family, or for any other reason, other than stated... The stated part refers to her health guarantee laid out in another part of the sales agreement, which the guarantee is good for 3 months after the purchase. Now for my Chi, I have a lifetime warranty from her breeder and he would break it down into percentages depending on how old the dog is when diagnosed. Like from 1-3 yrs. it's like 80% off the purchase price of another dog, 3-5 yrs. it drops to a lower percentage and so on (I'd have to look at my paperwork for specifics). Neither breeder would refund any money if I wasn't able to keep my dogs for any reason. They would take them back, for free of course, and attempt to find them another home but I wouldn't be reimbursed any monies for something the breeder isn't responsible for. Around here it's not the norm to return money if the person has a problem in keeping the dog. Not sure how it is with other breeders elsewhere. Good luck to you!!

sylvan · 07-29-2005, 07:43 PM

My contract allows for a one week return with full refund for any reason other than injuring resulting from negligence or abuse. I figure a week is enough time to have a vet check done, find out if your other pets are going to get along with the new pup or just get over the idea of the pup and deal with the reality. If it's not everything they dreamed about, bring it back, no harm, no foul, no problem. The lifetime return policy does not have any financial obligation on my part to the pet owners, since I cannot predict what kind of expenses I may have to incur on behalf of the welfare of the dog when returned to me. It must be returned to me if not kept as an integral member of it's adoptive family for the extent of it's life.
The health guarantee against any genetic defects is limited to the price paid for the pup.

sylvan · 07-29-2005, 07:47 PM

OOps, forgot...my health guarantee against genetic defects is for one year, because many of those problems do not show up in a younger pup.

Lady of Yorkies · 07-29-2005, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sylvan

My contract allows for a one week return with full refund for any reason other than injuring resulting from negligence or abuse. I figure a week is enough time to have a vet check done, find out if your other pets are going to get along with the new pup or just get over the idea of the pup and deal with the reality. If it's not everything they dreamed about, bring it back, no harm, no foul, no problem. The lifetime return policy does not have any financial obligation on my part to the pet owners, since I cannot predict what kind of expenses I may have to incur on behalf of the welfare of the dog when returned to me. It must be returned to me if not kept as an integral member of it's adoptive family for the extent of it's life.
The health guarantee against any genetic defects is limited to the price paid for the pup.

Sylvan: Does your contract actually say "If it's not everything they dreamed about, bring it back, no harm, no foul, no problem. The lifetime return policy does not have any financial obligation on my part to the pet owners, since I cannot predict what kind of expenses I may have to incur on behalf of the welfare of the dog when returned to me. It must be returned to me if not kept as an integral member of it's adoptive family for the extent of it's life. "? If so could I get a copy of one of your contracts? Sylvia

SoCalyorkiLvr · 07-29-2005, 07:52 PM

Sylvan~

Have you ever had a pup returned? If so , what were the circumstances?

If it is returned and you are able to sell it, do you then compensate the original purchasers?

To me it would be similar to returning anything else and if the seller can make a profit from a second sale, they should split the profit (anything left over after espenses i.e. running an ad, vet bills, food, care, etc). Otherwise they are unfairly profiting from the transaction in my opinion. Not sure what a judge would say.

Lady of Yorkies · 07-29-2005, 07:55 PM

Kim, I think most breeders find free homes when the pups are returned.

whispersmom2 · 07-29-2005, 07:59 PM

Stacy, that is similiar to most of the agreements I have seen. Has anyone else signed a contract saying you are to notify the seller of the situation with the puppy? What did it say about the return?? Refund? Replace? Simple return to the person who is responsible for every Yorkie life they have produced?

Lady of Yorkies · 07-29-2005, 08:08 PM

Rini, do you have one like that? If so could I get a copy of one of your contracts too? I am trying to make up a contract that will protect me, and the new parents as well as the puppy for his/her life.

How can you enforce a contract rule(wrong word, I hope you know what I mean)? If I say in my contract that they are to be the only owners and if they need to let the dog go for any reason, it is to be returned to me for rehoming, how can I know what they are or are not doing with him/her?

sylvan · 07-29-2005, 08:08 PM

Okay, no it doesn't say no harm,no foul...I was explaining why I feel that one week full refund is reasonable instead of the three days required by law. I will be happy to provide a copy of my contract to anyone, and Kim if you would be willing to offer free legal advice to make improvements to it I would be nothing but grateful. To answer your question, yes, I did have a dog returned to my care that was 1 1/2. The situation was a divorce in the family with some other extenuating circumstances and I did not refund any money to them. I vetted the dog and spent two weeks re- training the dog, before placing it for free in a worthy adoptive home, where it still resides.

Lady of Yorkies · 07-29-2005, 08:16 PM

Sylvan, what is vetted? I hope it doesn't mean you took her to be checked out by the vet, otherwise I'm going to sound pretty dumb.

Also does your contract sound like it was written by a lawyer? I like to be able to understand what is being said without having to plow thru things.

whispersmom2 · 07-29-2005, 08:19 PM

The items to be included in your contract have to be specific to your state. There are some states with lemon laws, some states that say a take-back policy is unenforceable and so on. Okey-dokey, here is MY (this is the opinion by the writer and in no way intended to represent the views of the adm or any members on this forum!) philosophy. IF, and that is a very BIG IF, you do not include such clauses in your agreement-read and SIGNED by both parties- there is a 100% chance you cannot enforce the return policy. Included with these provisions you stand a 50% chance of enforcing it. You can also write in, that failure to abide by any and all of the terms as set forth, the buyer may forfeit a set sum OR pay court costs of the seller in any endeavors to correct the situation no matter the outcome in the court..You wil be amazed at what is and what is not enforceable..

sylvan · 07-29-2005, 08:21 PM

Vetted does mean taken to the vet, sorry...and I gotta laugh a little. I pm'd you a copy of it. I think it's pretty straightforward.

sylvan · 07-29-2005, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whispersmom2

You can also write in, that failure to abide by any and all of the terms as set forth, the buyer may forfeit a set sum OR pay court costs of the seller in any endeavors to correct the situation no matter the outcome in the court..You wil be amazed at what is and what is not enforceable..

OOOH I like that, I think I'm gonna hafta make revisions and add that in.

Lady of Yorkies · 07-29-2005, 08:24 PM

Yup, I now officially feel dumb. LOL Thanks for a copy of your contract, I've printed it out and will read it over.

07-29-2005, 07:04 PM	#1
Lady of Yorkies YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Missouri Posts: 1,562	A question for breeders When you have sold a puppy and for some reason the new parents can't keep the puppy, do you refund the money and if so how do you figure out how much to give back at different ages? Say, if they find out within two months, how much do you give back? And if your contract says you have first refusal and the dog is a year or older, how much do you give back? Also, why the difference in a one year genetic guarantee and a three year guarantee?

07-29-2005, 07:34 PM	#2
velobabe Mommy's Lil' Piper Cub Join Date: May 2005 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 1,333	I'm not a breeder but the breeder who I got Piper from states specifically in her sales agreement that... Breeder/Seller assumes no responsibility for the puppy after leaving the premises; medical expenses, landlord’s disapproval, allergy to animals, disagreement of family, or for any other reason, other than stated... The stated part refers to her health guarantee laid out in another part of the sales agreement, which the guarantee is good for 3 months after the purchase. Now for my Chi, I have a lifetime warranty from her breeder and he would break it down into percentages depending on how old the dog is when diagnosed. Like from 1-3 yrs. it's like 80% off the purchase price of another dog, 3-5 yrs. it drops to a lower percentage and so on (I'd have to look at my paperwork for specifics). Neither breeder would refund any money if I wasn't able to keep my dogs for any reason. They would take them back, for free of course, and attempt to find them another home but I wouldn't be reimbursed any monies for something the breeder isn't responsible for. Around here it's not the norm to return money if the person has a problem in keeping the dog. Not sure how it is with other breeders elsewhere. Good luck to you!! __________________ Tammy & Piper ~Yorkies Are Not Our Whole Life, But They Make Our Lives Whole~

07-29-2005, 07:43 PM	#3
sylvan YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Eastern PA Posts: 2,484	My contract allows for a one week return with full refund for any reason other than injuring resulting from negligence or abuse. I figure a week is enough time to have a vet check done, find out if your other pets are going to get along with the new pup or just get over the idea of the pup and deal with the reality. If it's not everything they dreamed about, bring it back, no harm, no foul, no problem. The lifetime return policy does not have any financial obligation on my part to the pet owners, since I cannot predict what kind of expenses I may have to incur on behalf of the welfare of the dog when returned to me. It must be returned to me if not kept as an integral member of it's adoptive family for the extent of it's life. The health guarantee against any genetic defects is limited to the price paid for the pup.

07-29-2005, 07:47 PM	#4
sylvan YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Eastern PA Posts: 2,484	OOps, forgot...my health guarantee against genetic defects is for one year, because many of those problems do not show up in a younger pup.

07-29-2005, 07:52 PM	#6
SoCalyorkiLvr BANNED! Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 8,246	Sylvan~ Have you ever had a pup returned? If so , what were the circumstances? If it is returned and you are able to sell it, do you then compensate the original purchasers? To me it would be similar to returning anything else and if the seller can make a profit from a second sale, they should split the profit (anything left over after espenses i.e. running an ad, vet bills, food, care, etc). Otherwise they are unfairly profiting from the transaction in my opinion. Not sure what a judge would say.

07-29-2005, 07:55 PM	#7
Lady of Yorkies YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Missouri Posts: 1,562	Kim, I think most breeders find free homes when the pups are returned.

07-29-2005, 07:59 PM	#8
whispersmom2 Inactive Account Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: MD Posts: 2,985	Stacy, that is similiar to most of the agreements I have seen. Has anyone else signed a contract saying you are to notify the seller of the situation with the puppy? What did it say about the return?? Refund? Replace? Simple return to the person who is responsible for every Yorkie life they have produced?

07-29-2005, 08:08 PM	#9
Lady of Yorkies YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Missouri Posts: 1,562	Rini, do you have one like that? If so could I get a copy of one of your contracts too? I am trying to make up a contract that will protect me, and the new parents as well as the puppy for his/her life. How can you enforce a contract rule(wrong word, I hope you know what I mean)? If I say in my contract that they are to be the only owners and if they need to let the dog go for any reason, it is to be returned to me for rehoming, how can I know what they are or are not doing with him/her?

07-29-2005, 08:16 PM	#11
Lady of Yorkies YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Missouri Posts: 1,562	Sylvan, what is vetted? I hope it doesn't mean you took her to be checked out by the vet, otherwise I'm going to sound pretty dumb. Also does your contract sound like it was written by a lawyer? I like to be able to understand what is being said without having to plow thru things.

07-29-2005, 08:19 PM	#12
whispersmom2 Inactive Account Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: MD Posts: 2,985	The items to be included in your contract have to be specific to your state. There are some states with lemon laws, some states that say a take-back policy is unenforceable and so on. Okey-dokey, here is MY (this is the opinion by the writer and in no way intended to represent the views of the adm or any members on this forum!) philosophy. IF, and that is a very BIG IF, you do not include such clauses in your agreement-read and SIGNED by both parties- there is a 100% chance you cannot enforce the return policy. Included with these provisions you stand a 50% chance of enforcing it. You can also write in, that failure to abide by any and all of the terms as set forth, the buyer may forfeit a set sum OR pay court costs of the seller in any endeavors to correct the situation no matter the outcome in the court..You wil be amazed at what is and what is not enforceable..

07-29-2005, 08:21 PM	#13
sylvan YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Eastern PA Posts: 2,484	Vetted does mean taken to the vet, sorry...and I gotta laugh a little. I pm'd you a copy of it. I think it's pretty straightforward.

07-29-2005, 08:24 PM	#15
Lady of Yorkies YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Missouri Posts: 1,562	Yup, I now officially feel dumb. LOL Thanks for a copy of your contract, I've printed it out and will read it over.