Breeding - Faults

[FlDebra]

I have an opinion question for those that breed and or show Yorkshires: How far off standard is exceptable when breeding.

For instance, if you had an 8 pound female and bred to a 3 pound male, chances are your puppies would be in standard -- is this acceptable?

If you have a dog that is a silver blue instead of the dark steel blue of the standard, should you still breed the dog?

Say one has big ears and the other small? Okay?

One with short cobby body and legs, the other with longer legs?

I know that we should strive for the standard. I am hoping mine turn out perfectly on standard. But my girl is growing like an Amazon which has made me start to wonder, what if she were to go over 7 pounds? Her "prediction" was 6 pounds but she seems to be having a growth spurt here. My male has a sooty silver topknot but I am seeing gold/tan roots. So, he may not be silver after all. I am not obsessing over their details or anything, but if I do breed, I want to do it right. Do I have it right that you would try to find the compliment to whatever feature you would like to change and go ahead and breed as long as neither are too far from the standard?

They are a long way from being old enough and I would have all the testing done as well as have them looked over by a knowledgeable 3rd party. But interested in all opinions.

[doortego]

I don't breed or show so probably shouldn't answer but just can't help myself . I would prefer not to see the oversize Yorkies bred. I think they are part of the reason for everyone asking for "teacups". So many times, people are surprised (as you are) with how large their Yorkies turn out to be so as a means of insuring that does not happen, they ask for a very small dog. There is just so much variation in Yorkies regarding size and color. I wish we could get to the point where when you buy a Yorkie pup you would at least know it would be less than 7 lbs and some shade of blue and tan silky coat with erect ears.

I hope that wasn't offensive. I didn't intend it to be and I am one of those that paid extra for a small dog just because my previous Yorkie had turned out to be 10 lbs. with floppy ears.

[browniesmom622]

im not a breeder but i think both dogs should be as close to the standard when breeding

[FlDebra]

Originally Posted by doortego

I don't breed or show so probably shouldn't answer but just can't help myself . I would prefer not to see the oversize Yorkies bred. I think they are part of the reason for everyone asking for "teacups". So many times, people are surprised (as you are) with how large their Yorkies turn out to be so as a means of insuring that does not happen, they ask for a very small dog. There is just so much variation in Yorkies regarding size and color. I wish we could get to the point where when you buy a Yorkie pup you would at least know it would be less than 7 lbs and some shade of blue and tan silky coat with erect ears.

I hope that wasn't offensive. I didn't intend it to be and I am one of those that paid extra for a small dog just because my previous Yorkie had turned out to be 10 lbs. with floppy ears.

Not offensive at all. My first Yorkie wound up over standard too, with wavy hair. But I spayed her and she was a wonderful pet. Still, what I love is the Yorkshire Terrier standard. That is what I want any puppies I should be responsible for to be.

I don't know if the girl I have now will really get that big. I started thinking of it as I measured her for a harness vest and by the time it got here she was already an inch bigger around. Her parents were both in standard and she was on track to be a 6 pounder but you never know.

It just made me start to wonder. Dogs are even shown and can make champion with a fault. I know dogs are bred with faults, just about every site I see has beautiful dogs that are obviously off standard in one way or another -- especially color. We see momma dogs here on YT that are not in standard in every respect. But just what is and is not acceptable, I am not sure. I picked a larger female for safety sake in case we do get to breed ... but trying for a 6 pounder, I am sure some go a little over the 7 mark. Mine eats like a horse so we'll see..... I won't have a problem spaying her if it winds up that is what I need to do.

It would be interesting to see the genetics -- like what is dominant, large or small size? What is dominant, large ears, or small? What about the color -- silvery blue or dark steel blue? Glad I am starting early to learn! Thanks for all input.

[yorkiegirl2]

Originally Posted by FlDebra

I have an opinion question for those that breed and or show Yorkshires: How far off standard is exceptable when breeding.

For instance, if you had an 8 pound female and bred to a 3 pound male, chances are your puppies would be in standard -- is this acceptable?

If you have a dog that is a silver blue instead of the dark steel blue of the standard, should you still breed the dog?

Say one has big ears and the other small? Okay?

One with short cobby body and legs, the other with longer legs?

I know that we should strive for the standard. I am hoping mine turn out perfectly on standard. But my girl is growing like an Amazon which has made me start to wonder, what if she were to go over 7 pounds? Her "prediction" was 6 pounds but she seems to be having a growth spurt here. My male has a sooty silver topknot but I am seeing gold/tan roots. So, he may not be silver after all. I am not obsessing over their details or anything, but if I do breed, I want to do it right. Do I have it right that you would try to find the compliment to whatever feature you would like to change and go ahead and breed as long as neither are too far from the standard?

They are a long way from being old enough and I would have all the testing done as well as have them looked over by a knowledgeable 3rd party. But interested in all opinions.

I would say it depend on the female ..at 8 lbs is she on the small side?
( a small frame.)
or is she on larger side?
(Large framed).
If an 8 lb female had the qualities I wanted with a small frame ..
Then I would breed her back to a smaller male and see what happens.
To work within the faults..if one has bigger ears.
Then breed back to one with smaller ears.
Same for longer in the body ..breed to a cobby body...etc.
I would watch the pups as they grow .. do they appear to have the qualities you are after??
Also keep the best pup/s and breed back to the more correct qualities you are going for.
Hope this helps...

[doortego]

I can't remember what book it was, seems like it was an old one that I had to get from half.com but one of them gave a pretty detailed explanation of the genetics of Yorkies. I know there are some YTers that know because that is where I heard about it. Maybe the name was just The Yorkshire Terrier and the author Gordon??

Hopefully your little girl just had a growth spurt and will slow down. I know what you mean about loving them anyway. Once you have them, they are yours if they grow to 20#. You just can't help loving them but I really did want mine to stay on the smaller size because we will be traveling with her (as well as other reasons).

Good luck,
Donna

[YorkieRose]

Breeders can get on their high horse and say they always use correct stock..but the fact is..dogs have faults and we have to breed with faults that are minor.

A stud can produce far more pups then a btich, so I feel he should be of the best quality..good structure and color. Males tend to hold color as they do not have hormone fluctuations.

Size is relative to the frame...there is nothing wrong with an 8 or 9 pound bitch with a nice compact frame. I do not like a oversized bitch who is coarse and looks it...but a bit of extra weight is not bad for a brood. I have never had problems with oversized pups when using an 8 pound girl..many 7 pound frames turn into 9 pounds with the breeding of a few litters..

You do not want to start with bad bites or flop ears..or serious structure problems..but a bit too light or dark is a minor fault..if you wait until you have every point of the standard in your dog and bitch, you will not breed for many years or never...the goal is to improve...and I have taken a light bitch, bred to a deep steel blue stud and gotten all nice steel blue pups...

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by YorkieRose

Breeders can get on their high horse and say they always use correct stock..but the fact is..dogs have faults and we have to breed with faults that are minor.

A stud can produce far more pups then a btich, so I feel he should be of the best quality..good structure and color. Males tend to hold color as they do not have hormone fluctuations.

Size is relative to the frame...there is nothing wrong with an 8 or 9 pound bitch with a nice compact frame. I do not like a oversized bitch who is coarse and looks it...but a bit of extra weight is not bad for a brood. I have never had problems with oversized pups when using an 8 pound girl..many 7 pound frames turn into 9 pounds with the breeding of a few litters..

You do not want to start with bad bites or flop ears..or serious structure problems..but a bit too light or dark is a minor fault..if you wait until you have every point of the standard in your dog and bitch, you will not breed for many years or never...the goal is to improve...and I have taken a light bitch, bred to a deep steel blue stud and gotten all nice steel blue pups...

In complete agreement. Your most important thing is to improve the breed. Look at your bitch and ask what you'd like to improve, find a good stud (pedigree that you know) that has those qualities that you'd like to improve on your bitch.

One thing to add. Breeding a larger bitch to a smaller dog does does not guarantee standard size yorkies.....there is alot more that plays into it....genetics.

[Susan123]

Originally Posted by YorkieRose

Breeders can get on their high horse and say they always use correct stock..but the fact is..dogs have faults and we have to breed with faults that are minor.

A stud can produce far more pups then a btich, so I feel he should be of the best quality..good structure and color. Males tend to hold color as they do not have hormone fluctuations.

Size is relative to the frame...there is nothing wrong with an 8 or 9 pound bitch with a nice compact frame. I do not like a oversized bitch who is coarse and looks it...but a bit of extra weight is not bad for a brood. I have never had problems with oversized pups when using an 8 pound girl..many 7 pound frames turn into 9 pounds with the breeding of a few litters..

You do not want to start with bad bites or flop ears..or serious structure problems..but a bit too light or dark is a minor fault..if you wait until you have every point of the standard in your dog and bitch, you will not breed for many years or never...the goal is to improve...and I have taken a light bitch, bred to a deep steel blue stud and gotten all nice steel blue pups...

[ButterflyYorkie]

Originally Posted by YorkieRose

Breeders can get on their high horse and say they always use correct stock..but the fact is..dogs have faults and we have to breed with faults that are minor.

A stud can produce far more pups then a btich, so I feel he should be of the best quality..good structure and color. Males tend to hold color as they do not have hormone fluctuations.

Size is relative to the frame...there is nothing wrong with an 8 or 9 pound bitch with a nice compact frame. I do not like a oversized bitch who is coarse and looks it...but a bit of extra weight is not bad for a brood. I have never had problems with oversized pups when using an 8 pound girl..many 7 pound frames turn into 9 pounds with the breeding of a few litters..

You do not want to start with bad bites or flop ears..or serious structure problems..but a bit too light or dark is a minor fault..if you wait until you have every point of the standard in your dog and bitch, you will not breed for many years or never...the goal is to improve...and I have taken a light bitch, bred to a deep steel blue stud and gotten all nice steel blue pups...

Great post.
I have found much of what Pat said to be true. We had an 8 lb bitch that we bred to a 4 lb male twice...same result each time, pups averaged 5-6 lbs at maturity. She reached 8 lbs after her first litter; she was a dead on 7 prior to her first litter. Breeding with serious structure problems will only worsen the problem in the end. I will only breed with a minor fault that I can live with as we all know that there is no perfect speciman..and always pairing with something to hopefully correct it. I do not classify a pound over standard as a "fault" regarding a bitch.

[CO_yorkie_momma]

That is what I like about Yorkie Rose and Mardelin. They teach without sounding like they are on their high horse. I love learning from both of you and appreciate all of the good information you give without sounding condescending when you do it. Thank you both.

[troubletb]

Originally Posted by CO_yorkie_momma

That is what I like about Yorkie Rose and Mardelin. They teach without sounding like they are on their high horse. I love learning from both of you and appreciate all of the good information you give without sounding condescending when you do it. Thank you both.

Here, Here.... I too have learned so much from Pat, she is always there to help!!
Thanks Pat!! You are wonderful!!

[peanut]

Originally Posted by CO_yorkie_momma

That is what I like about Yorkie Rose and Mardelin. They teach without sounding like they are on their high horse. I love learning from both of you and appreciate all of the good information you give without sounding condescending when you do it. Thank you both.

[yorkiegirl2]

Originally Posted by CO_yorkie_momma

That is what I like about Yorkie Rose and Mardelin. They teach without sounding like they are on their high horse. I love learning from both of you and appreciate all of the good information you give without sounding condescending when you do it. Thank you both.

Here Here....
I have had to ask Pat more then once about a few things....
I think we need a section called ...ASK PAT

[FlDebra]

I really appreciate the depth of answers you all offered up. The answers make sense and are what I would hope for. I would never breed a fault that might lead to health problems but am thinking if Sadie wound up at 7.5 pounds are so, I would go ahead and breed her to my litle Ben. They seem so complimentary to each other so far. Some days I think I cannot wait to see their adult colors and then other days I tell myself just enjoy them being puppies for now. It's just like having kids!