Breeding - Faults - Page 3 - YorkieTalk.com Forums

bebeyorkie · 02-22-2007, 07:52 PM

Just wondering why shouldn't people breed yorkies with floppy ears?

Ladyhawk · 02-23-2007, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bebeyorkie

Just wondering why shouldn't people breed yorkies with floppy ears?

Floppy ears are not to standard. They are a recessive trait so if your bitch has floppy ears it is heterozygous for that trait. Unless the dog that you breed her to is homozygous for erect ears than 2 out of 4 pups would end up with flop ears and the other 2 will carry that recessive gene. Keep it up and yorkies won't look like yorkies at all.

YorkieRose · 02-23-2007, 04:31 PM

LadyHawk has hit the nail on the head...people go to the breeder expecting to get a Yorkie. When the pup does not turn out to have the traits of a Yorkie then they have been cheated IMO...

Time to repeat the the bakers story for the new members don't you think? I go to the bakery and ask for an angel food cake, but the baker puts a chocolate cake in the box. I go home and I call the baker to complain I did not get what I paid for..the baker says.."So what, chocolate cake is also a cake and good to eat"..BUT I wanted angel food... It is the bakers responsiblity to go by the "recipe" and produce what I paid for...the same as the Yorkie breeder is suppose to follow the "recipe" which is the standard and produce a pup with as many of the Yorkie traits as humanly possible...you see, when a breeder overlooks major faults (flop ears are major) then what else will they accept fault-wise...bad bites, poor top lines, incorrect coats, aggression, shyness...on and on...soon the Yorkie looks like a mutt...and I love mutts, but people should not paid $1500 for one...they can be rescued from the pound.

gloriajean · 02-23-2007, 05:10 PM

I"m just wondering, if you breed to the "standard" (AKC standard) and AKC states what color they should be, how come you can find silver and tan champion yorkies all over the web??? NOW DON'T jump on me please, just wanted to know how they can win in an AKC show if the color is soooo far off from what AKC states is "THE STANDARD" ??? just wondering.

Jane · 02-23-2007, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yorkiegirl2

I would say it depend on the female ..at 8 lbs is she on the small side?
( a small frame.)
or is she on larger side?
(Large framed).
If an 8 lb female had the qualities I wanted with a small frame ..
Then I would breed her back to a smaller male and see what happens.
To work within the faults..if one has bigger ears.
Then breed back to one with smaller ears.
Same for longer in the body ..breed to a cobby body...etc.
I would watch the pups as they grow .. do they appear to have the qualities you are after??
Also keep the best pup/s and breed back to the more correct qualities you are going for.
Hope this helps...

Very good advice

Mardelin · 02-23-2007, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gloriajean

I"m just wondering, if you breed to the "standard" (AKC standard) and AKC states what color they should be, how come you can find silver and tan champion yorkies all over the web??? NOW DON'T jump on me please, just wanted to know how they can win in an AKC show if the color is soooo far off from what AKC states is "THE STANDARD" ??? just wondering.

This is what is stated in the standard

That of a long-haired toy terrier whose blue and tan coat is parted on the face and from the base of the skull to the end of the tail and hangs evenly and quite straight down each side of body. The body is neat, compact and well proportioned. The dog's high head carriage and confident manner should give the appearance of vigor and self importance.

Blue is subject to interpretation.....Now females while showing may have a darker blue coat, however, with each season they get lighter.

trini&coco · 02-23-2007, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gloriajean

I"m just wondering, if you breed to the "standard" (AKC standard) and AKC states what color they should be, how come you can find silver and tan champion yorkies all over the web??? NOW DON'T jump on me please, just wanted to know how they can win in an AKC show if the color is soooo far off from what AKC states is "THE STANDARD" ??? just wondering.

I think the silver and tan is a version of the blue & tan but a much lighter version...

...Yep, what Mardelin said

Ramona · 02-23-2007, 05:39 PM

Bravo!!!!!!! Yorkierose. Tell it like it is. There are a lot of people out there that just want a yorkie to love. They don't care about standard or show quality. I have a little silver, slightly ridgeback yt & also a steel blue, great conformation yt. I can't tell you how many times people have preferred the so called flawed baby as their favorite. It's all a matter of personal taste. She gets just as many compliments as my " meets standard" baby. And of course they are both loved equally by me.

YorkieRose · 02-23-2007, 05:42 PM

Color is not a serious fault (silvery blue)..so most judges will put up a lighter one over a structure fault like top line, bad bite etc...it is hard to get deep steel blue and keep it forever...dogs lighten by the time they make champion sometimes, especially the silk ones..in the days of old and Yorkies were very dark, most were very soft, cottony...C.D. Higgins won the Garden, but I doubt the judge would give it to him today..he was very different then what we see now..
I recently saw a web site with some of the older Yorks...all looked soft..

Does anyone know the point system a judge uses to judge the dog?

Mardelin · 02-23-2007, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YorkieRose

Color is not a serious fault (silvery blue)..so most judges will put up a lighter one over a structure fault like top line, bad bite etc...it is hard to get deep steel blue and keep it forever...dogs lighten by the time they make champion sometimes, especially the silk ones..in the days of old and Yorkies were very dark, most were very soft, cottony...C.D. Higgins won the Garden, but I doubt the judge would give it to him today..he was very different then what we see now..
I recently saw a web site with some of the older Yorks...all looked soft..

Does anyone know the point system a judge uses to judge the dog?

Pat,

The All Breed Club I belong to just had their Cluster Show in January. While lunching with some of the judges, they brought up the judging of the Yorkshire Terrier, all of them brought up the fact that it was one, if not the most difficult breeds to judge. Their reason was that the standard was open to interpretation. What I gathered from this conversation is that each of these judges, judged the breed by their own preference. I'm not really sure if they do have a point system when judging the YT. However, I will ask one of the members in the club, who is a judge, just to make sure.

Mardelin · 02-23-2007, 05:52 PM

On another note, a few months ago I asked a breeder who occassionaly judges sweepstakes, if she had a soft coated dog with excellent structure and a so, so structured dog with the very correct coat, what would she put up? What do you think she said.

YorkieRose · 02-23-2007, 05:55 PM

SO true...blue is in the eye of the beholder...
I recall seeing a list of "points" a judge wrote down for each dog he judged..but it was so long ago..who knows..maybe his sytem to remember the dogs..
When I had a litter of black and tan Doxies, I knew they would be that color until the day they died..not so with a Yorkie..remind me why we picked such a difficult dog to breed correctly???? LOL

Mardelin · 02-23-2007, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YorkieRose

SO true...blue is in the eye of the beholder...
I recall seeing a list of "points" a judge wrote down for each dog he judged..but it was so long ago..who knows..maybe his sytem to remember the dogs..
When I had a litter of black and tan Doxies, I knew they would be that color until the day they died..not so with a Yorkie..remind me why we picked such a difficult dog to breed correctly???? LOL

Because of the challenge, otherwise you would have just stuck with the Doxies. Or maybe because we're nuts.

YorkieRose · 02-23-2007, 06:05 PM

The judge said she would put up a soft coat on good structure...

I would, because coat color and texture is the easiest trait to change..a structure fault can haunt you forever and it effects the total dog, its gait, topline etc...you might as well stop and get new blood...or try to breed out huge ears, it can take generations...you can breed color back into a line in one generation...texture follows color..

Nothing worse the a goegeous silk hung on a falling apart frame...it is like Marie Antonette covering dung heaps with tapestry carpets...

yorkieK9trainer · 02-23-2007, 06:07 PM

Do I have it right that you would try to find the compliment to whatever feature you would like to change and go ahead and breed as long as neither are too far from the standard?

When breeding, you don't find a dog w/ huge ears and then breed that dog to a dog w/ tiny ears hoping to get something in the middle. Genetics simply don't work that way.
You need to always looks for a phenotype that closely represents what you're striving for and breed to a similar phenotype.

02-22-2007, 07:52 PM	#31
bebeyorkie YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: california Posts: 659	Just wondering why shouldn't people breed yorkies with floppy ears? __________________ Bebe Toby Apple Our Beautiful Shells We will forever Love You 1994-2009

02-23-2007, 04:31 PM	#33
YorkieRose No Longer a Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: South Florida Posts: 8,577	breeding LadyHawk has hit the nail on the head...people go to the breeder expecting to get a Yorkie. When the pup does not turn out to have the traits of a Yorkie then they have been cheated IMO... Time to repeat the the bakers story for the new members don't you think? I go to the bakery and ask for an angel food cake, but the baker puts a chocolate cake in the box. I go home and I call the baker to complain I did not get what I paid for..the baker says.."So what, chocolate cake is also a cake and good to eat"..BUT I wanted angel food... It is the bakers responsiblity to go by the "recipe" and produce what I paid for...the same as the Yorkie breeder is suppose to follow the "recipe" which is the standard and produce a pup with as many of the Yorkie traits as humanly possible...you see, when a breeder overlooks major faults (flop ears are major) then what else will they accept fault-wise...bad bites, poor top lines, incorrect coats, aggression, shyness...on and on...soon the Yorkie looks like a mutt...and I love mutts, but people should not paid $1500 for one...they can be rescued from the pound.

02-23-2007, 05:10 PM	#34
gloriajean YT Addict Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Tennessee Posts: 460	don't jump on me but... I"m just wondering, if you breed to the "standard" (AKC standard) and AKC states what color they should be, how come you can find silver and tan champion yorkies all over the web??? NOW DON'T jump on me please, just wanted to know how they can win in an AKC show if the color is soooo far off from what AKC states is "THE STANDARD" ??? just wondering.

02-23-2007, 05:42 PM	#39
YorkieRose No Longer a Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: South Florida Posts: 8,577	true Color is not a serious fault (silvery blue)..so most judges will put up a lighter one over a structure fault like top line, bad bite etc...it is hard to get deep steel blue and keep it forever...dogs lighten by the time they make champion sometimes, especially the silk ones..in the days of old and Yorkies were very dark, most were very soft, cottony...C.D. Higgins won the Garden, but I doubt the judge would give it to him today..he was very different then what we see now.. I recently saw a web site with some of the older Yorks...all looked soft.. Does anyone know the point system a judge uses to judge the dog?

02-23-2007, 05:52 PM	#41
Mardelin Mardelin Yorkshire Terriers Donating Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: California Posts: 14,776	On another note, a few months ago I asked a breeder who occassionaly judges sweepstakes, if she had a soft coated dog with excellent structure and a so, so structured dog with the very correct coat, what would she put up? What do you think she said. __________________ Mardelin *Yorkshire* *Terriers*

02-23-2007, 05:39 PM	#38
Ramona Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: georgia Posts: 102	Bravo!!!!!!! Yorkierose. Tell it like it is. There are a lot of people out there that just want a yorkie to love. They don't care about standard or show quality. I have a little silver, slightly ridgeback yt & also a steel blue, great conformation yt. I can't tell you how many times people have preferred the so called flawed baby as their favorite. It's all a matter of personal taste. She gets just as many compliments as my " meets standard" baby. And of course they are both loved equally by me.

02-23-2007, 05:55 PM	#42
YorkieRose No Longer a Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: South Florida Posts: 8,577	judging SO true...blue is in the eye of the beholder... I recall seeing a list of "points" a judge wrote down for each dog he judged..but it was so long ago..who knows..maybe his sytem to remember the dogs.. When I had a litter of black and tan Doxies, I knew they would be that color until the day they died..not so with a Yorkie..remind me why we picked such a difficult dog to breed correctly???? LOL

02-23-2007, 06:05 PM	#44
YorkieRose No Longer a Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: South Florida Posts: 8,577	judge The judge said she would put up a soft coat on good structure... I would, because coat color and texture is the easiest trait to change..a structure fault can haunt you forever and it effects the total dog, its gait, topline etc...you might as well stop and get new blood...or try to breed out huge ears, it can take generations...you can breed color back into a line in one generation...texture follows color.. Nothing worse the a goegeous silk hung on a falling apart frame...it is like Marie Antonette covering dung heaps with tapestry carpets... Last edited by YorkieRose; 02-23-2007 at 06:07 PM.

02-23-2007, 06:07 PM	#45
yorkieK9trainer YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: North eastern Illinois Suburbs Posts: 1,669	Do I have it right that you would try to find the compliment to whatever feature you would like to change and go ahead and breed as long as neither are too far from the standard? When breeding, you don't find a dog w/ huge ears and then breed that dog to a dog w/ tiny ears hoping to get something in the middle. Genetics simply don't work that way. You need to always looks for a phenotype that closely represents what you're striving for and breed to a similar phenotype. __________________ "Big things come in small packages" http://www.myspace.com/yorkiek9trainer