Can you give me your opinion please?

[college_girl]

Hi fellow yorkie lovers,

Like I've posted before, I've been looking for a yorkie for a while but I've mainly been checking the classifieds in the modbee, fresnobee, and sacbee.

I've found one from Visalia that I believe may be a good one. She seems legitimate to me and I also spoke with her on the telephone and she told me that I was very welcome to come to her house and check out the puppies and the parents and that she would want me to meet her, etc. I don't think she owns the mother, but she owns the father of the pups. She's a sweet lady.


Can I get your input please?

I sent her an email asking these questions:

- How long have you been breeding yorkies?
- What do you do as far as health screening?
- Will my dog come with a health guarantee?
- Have you had any genetic conditions in your lines? (ie. liver shunt, luxating patella, etc?)
- Where do you keep your dogs? The puppies?
- How often do you breed your females?
- Do you give full registration or limited registration?
- What age do you let your puppies go to their new homes?
- Do you have previous buyers I can contact as a reference?
- Do you offer support after the puppy has come home?
- How much do the mom and dad weigh?

And here's what she responded:
I'll try to answer all questions and if I don't ask again. 20 years I have had Yorkies.I give Nemax twice,Panacur 5 days running for worming and geardia,albon 5 days running for cocci, and droncit if I feel they need it. My biggest concern is parvo so I won't let my pups go unless they have had 2 shots-min. Genetic guarantee-will replace puppy. I have a covered kennel with cement floor and big runs for the dogs. My puppies are born and raised in a nursery (mother has fully enclosed area with whelping box and light if needed for heat.) The area is approx7ft x 3 ft. Puppies are brought into house before I sell them to make sure everything is ok Breed once a year if mother is healthy. These pups are not AKC-father is but mother is not. Any dog can get CKC, etc. papers. I sell my pups when they have 2 shots which is usually 8 weeks. Prevous buyers-I have never asked anyone before but I could. I insist on offering support after the puppy goes to new home as I want the puppy and it's new Mommie/Daddy to both be happy. I am 68 years old (retired school counselor) and I got my first puppy when I was five and have always had puppies and momas around-I am a dog person. I think you could say I prefer most dogs over people. Daddy is 4 lbs and Mom is 5-6 lbs. Hope this helps. Thanks



Also, are there any other questions that I should ask? I'd appreciate all the help I can get! Thanks!

[Bravo916]

Here are some concerns I would have:

Health testing--she talked about shots and communicable diseases but not about what kind of genetic health screening she has done. She didn't even address if the parents had been checked for liver shunt (BAT test). How are their patellas, trachea's, eyes? Have the parents been screened for leg calve perthes? If this is her line she has been breeding, what kind of problems has she had in her line (all breeders have had them)? The genetic guarantee is a nice gesture but after you have loved and bonded with a dog for a year would you really want to give it back to the breeder for a new puppy because it has a liver shunt? Puppy replacement does not stop the pain for you or the dog suffering.

Whelping--All whelping is done in the nursery? All of the breeders I know would never leave their whelping mothers and new puppies in any location other than the house where they can be constantly monitored.

Kennel--the breeder has a kennel. If your operation is large enough that it requires a kennel, esp for toy breeds, you have way too many dogs.

Puppies--she places her dogs at 8wks old when the YTCA specified age is 12wks. The pups are not AKC registered--why? Is she banned from AKC?

Advertising--when breeders advertise in the classified section, to me its a red flag. Classified ads are methods used by puppy mills, dog brokers and BYB operations--all of which are all about the "bottom line" and not on the health and well being of puppies they are selling and the dogs they are breeding. Reputable breeders really dont have a need to publicly advertise as their reputation always precedes them.

If you are looking for a reputable breeder you will never find one in the classified section.

This is just my opinion--I am sure there will be more from others.

[FlDebra]

If you really want an opinion, I will give you mine. I would skip on to another breeder. I only go with AKC bred dogs. As she said, any dog can get a CKC (that's Continental not Canadian Kennel Club) registration. Sounds like she is selling non-registered puppies. When I decided I wanted a Yorkie, it was because I fell in love with the standard. To have the best chance of getting that, you need to stay with AKC and see that the parents and hopefully even grandparents are within standard. Small deviances can be compensated for or even over looked for a pet, but I want them close as possible. I also have a personal preference to only buy dogs that have been home raised -- not out back in a cement building, penned up like livestock. I want a dog that knows it is part of the family from day one. I want to know that the parents are part of the breeder's family always not just the day I come. That is just my preference and has given me excellent experiences. I guess it all depends on what you want.

[Mardelin]

I agree with the advice the other posters gave you....move on. Why is she deworming so much, why is she administering Albon for coccidia, most likely all her litters have it. For puppies this young she's over medicating.

First shot shouldn't have even been given until 8 weeks of age. She's already counteracted mother's immunities and the pups are more susceptable to parvo

Mother's should be in your bedroom when they're ready to whelp....and well after the pups are born.

Kennel.....my, my. This is a business for this person.

Find someone else.

[julietimothy]

Originally Posted by Bravo916

Here are some concerns I would have:

Health testing--she talked about shots and communicable diseases but not about what kind of genetic health screening she has done. She didn't even address if the parents had been checked for liver shunt (BAT test). How are their patellas, trachea's, eyes? Have the parents been screened for leg calve perthes? If this is her line she has been breeding, what kind of problems has she had in her line (all breeders have had them)? The genetic guarantee is a nice gesture but after you have loved and bonded with a dog for a year would you really want to give it back to the breeder for a new puppy because it has a liver shunt? Puppy replacement does not stop the pain for you or the dog suffering.

Whelping--All whelping is done in the nursery? All of the breeders I know would never leave their whelping mothers and new puppies in any location other than the house where they can be constantly monitored.

Kennel--the breeder has a kennel. If your operation is large enough that it requires a kennel, esp for toy breeds, you have way too many dogs.

Puppies--she places her dogs at 8wks old when the YTCA specified age is 12wks. The pups are not AKC registered--why? Is she banned from AKC?

Advertising--when breeders advertise in the classified section, to me its a red flag. Classified ads are methods used by puppy mills, dog brokers and BYB operations--all of which are all about the "bottom line" and not on the health and well being of puppies they are selling and the dogs they are breeding. Reputable breeders really dont have a need to publicly advertise as their reputation always precedes them.

If you are looking for a reputable breeder you will never find one in the classified section.

This is just my opinion--I am sure there will be more from others.

I agree with most of what she is saying in this. as for as the puppies and moms not beening in her home until 8 weeks is not right. But I do think most breeders even if you have 6 or 7 dogs it is to many to keep in your house. It is ok for the dog to have a kennel if they are house right. I do not like crates, where they don't get out and I think it should be an indoor kennel with doggie doors and a big fenced in area for the dogs to play. She did say that the moma dog was CKC reg that would be why the puppies are not AKC reg. The only thing with CKC is they will reg anything, but as with AKC they don't look at the puppies with they hand over the papers, I know many that is AKC reg and is 15lbs. For from standard but still AKC . The best thing is tell her you want to come look but may have to talk it over with your husband before you buy. This gives you an out. Go see not just the puppies but the way the adults is house and the houseing she had for puppies. They puppies may be very shy because her not having them raised in her home. That is not a good thing, if they are shy, but some puppy will be shy if there is too many people around or around new people. Stay around and see if the puppy warms up to you, if not don't buy. And if you get their and see it is not the set up you think puppies should be raised in don't buy the puppy, you may end up with a unhealth puppy. Ask if you can take the puppy to your vet and have checked out if the puppy is not healthy you would like you money back not another puppy!! Get this in writing!! Good luck, but to be truefully I would not buy from her, with the puppy not being raised in her home. That is a red flag to me. + she said her dogs was in a kennel with a cover over them, that is not and indoor kennel, which is needed for small dogs. good luck.

[college_girl]

Thank you both very much for your input.

It's important to me that I gain as much knowledge that I can because I do want to make sure that I'm getting a healthy and safe puppy. I want to make sure that I am doing the right thing on my part and also that the breeder is doing theirs.

The classifieds are now out for me!

Please feel free to give me any other suggestions that you have! Thank you.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by college_girl

Thank you both very much for your input.

It's important to me that I gain as much knowledge that I can because I do want to make sure that I'm getting a healthy and safe puppy. I want to make sure that I am doing the right thing on my part and also that the breeder is doing theirs.

The classifieds are now out for me!

Please feel free to give me any other suggestions that you have! Thank you.

Remember, this lady doesn't mention genetic testing, bile acids, etc. Letting the puppies go at 8 weeks of age is an absolute no, no. They learn so much from mother from 8 to 12 weeks of age, as well as the socialization that is done by the breeder.....So, much interaction and training goes on in those 4 weeks.

She mentions nothing about vet check, dew claw removal, tail docking, etc.

Once again find another breeder.

[college_girl]

I will, thank you.

[WV~Yorkies]

Sounds like she is running a kennel.

I didn't know all bad breeders use the classified's. Hmmm.. I have used them many times. Found some great homes that way.

I would watch people online also. Alot of scams out there.

[college_girl]

^ Thank you.

[Sugar's Mom]

i would not buy from this person. there are too many things that point to a large scale breeding operation. if I had to build a kennel to keep my dogs in outside, I would not be a breeder. But one thing I do want to mention is the ALBON issue. many breeders DO give their puppies a course of albon before they leave and our vets here in my area recommend it. I have never done it but have often thought it is a good idea. So I don't see what she is doing about that is a big deal. it certainly doesn't mean all her litters have or have had coccidia. but there are so many other red flags, I wouldn't even consider her. we have a few fine breeders in California that are members right here.

[Sugar's Mom]

Originally Posted by WV~Yorkies

Sounds like she is running a kennel.

I didn't know all bad breeders use the classified's. Hmmm.. I have used them many times. Found some great homes that way.

I would watch people online also. Alot of scams out there.

I used to not use classifieds but I do now since I want to sell my pups locally.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by Sugar's Mom

i would not buy from this person. there are too many things that point to a large scale breeding operation. if I had to build a kennel to keep my dogs in outside, I would not be a breeder. But one thing I do want to mention is the ALBON issue. many breeders DO give their puppies a course of albon before they leave and our vets here in my area recommend it. I have never done it but have often thought it is a good idea. So I don't see what she is doing about that is a big deal. it certainly doesn't mean all her litters have or have had coccidia. but there are so many other red flags, I wouldn't even consider her. we have a few fine breeders in California that are members right here.

If coccidia enters your home/kennel it is impossible to get rid of it, therefore the possibility of having to administer the Albon with all litters. And just by reading I think that is the case with this breeder. Coccidia is not only brought on by stress, but by bird and rabbit droppings. I've never had a case of it, but I have all my pups checked for it before they leave as well as for everything else. Too much medication is not good, they'll develope an immunity to it and when they really need it, what then? I'm of the old school, if it ain't broke don't fix it.