HELP! Should I terminate?!? - YorkieTalk.com Forums

LoverofYorkies · 01-25-2009, 07:28 PM

Good evening everyone,

I need some advice! My husband and I just returned from our honeymoon, and my 7 year old yorkie female stayed with my parents while we were gone. Low and behold, my parents DID NOT listen and allowed their 3 year old male to impregnante my girl. (I know, I know she SHOULD have been spayed, however she has NEVER been around another male, and they were explicitly told to keep them apart. Apparently he scaled a playpen, and somehow got through a baby gate to get her).

She is a healthy girl, but has never had a litter and I'm concerned about her age. Are the risks so high to her that I should terminate the litter? I hate to even think about that, and the vet says she should be okay since the male is smaller, but I do not want to risk her health or life (and yes, please, I know that I should NOT have ever allowed her to get into this situation, but I made a serious mistake by allowing her to stay with them and by not spaying her, but what do I do now that I have already messed up?)

I love her more than anything in the world and do not want to see her in pain or hurt or suffering.

Thank you for the help.

LoverofYorkies · 01-25-2009, 07:48 PM

I would not want to terminate (because the thought of that is just heartbreaking) unless the risk to her is great. That will also be a horrible decision. I fear I am faced with 2 bad options here and don't know what I should do! Is it too risky?

Nancy1999 · 01-25-2009, 07:53 PM

I'm so sorry you are going through this, I've read that the cut off age is 5 if they haven't had a litter, apparently their pelvic bones don't spread so easily after that. I'm surprised the vet thought everything would be ok. I'm sure you'll get a lot of good advice, and I just want to wish you the best of luck with your decision.

Sunnie · 01-25-2009, 07:53 PM

This is a tough one. At first I thought you said 7 months old and I would have told you yes in this case. But I reread and see that she is 7 years old. I almost think I would say yes in this case too. I would talk to your vet about it more or see another vet. The issue is not the size of the male, but the age of your female.

RONLYNN · 01-25-2009, 07:57 PM

I'm not sure what I would do but if you didn't plan on breeding your dog why would you not spay her? I can't imagine having to deal with her being in heat for all those years. Good luck with whatever you decide.

LoverofYorkies · 01-25-2009, 08:09 PM

I was going to spay her but, honestly, as silly as it sounds, I got really, really scared about putting her under anaesthesia. I kept delaying it and delaying it, and putting it off for my own selfish fear, hoping that she would never come to have any problems. I feel very guilty about it and understand how irresponsible it is, but really was so scared to do it. Now here we are ... It is just so hard because morally I feel that it would be horrendous to kill innocent little puppies, but I know labor is not an easy process and I have no experience whatsoever. She is a strong girl, but like everyone has said, she is not a spring chicken!

The vet told me that, basically, that if she was too old to have puppies she probably would not have gotten pregnant, which seems like a stupid thing, so yes I will see another vet. She is on the larger size and the male was very small and she is otherwise very healthy (blood tests came back okay) no health problems. He said that the primary problem for breeding older dogs is their inability to get pregant, birth defects, and a more taxing labor, but he said he thinks she can do it and be fine. So ... I dont know!!!! I'm so scared.

mscat · 01-25-2009, 08:35 PM

I did have to go through this with a young cat a long time ago. She was only about 7-8 months , I did terminate the pregnancy and had her spayed at the same time. It was a very difficult decison , however it felt like it was the right thing to do.

C C Kent · 01-25-2009, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoverofYorkies

Good evening everyone,

She is a healthy girl, but has never had a litter and I'm concerned about her age. Are the risks so high to her that I should terminate the litter? I hate to even think about that, and the vet says she should be okay since the male is smaller, but I do not want to risk her health or life (and yes, please, I know that I should NOT have ever allowed her to get into this situation, but I made a serious mistake by allowing her to stay with them and by not spaying her, but what do I do now that I have already messed up?)

I love her more than anything in the world and do not want to see her in pain or hurt or suffering.

Thank you for the help.

The "smaller" male does not figure into the decision. If he's three lbs or eight lbs your girl has the same chance of having one or more puppies she cannot whelp. The average vet has to be capable of treating almost any animal that comes through the door. They may not have the expertise in breed specific reproductive physiology that is required to give you the best advice.

bjh · 01-25-2009, 09:02 PM

It is a tough decision. Are you in a position to devote all the necessary time needed in raising a litter of pups? Most likely the female will be just fine but there is more to consider. Do you work or do you stay at home? It is a lot of responsibility caring for momma and babies for 10 to 12 weeks. There is also no guarantee the breeding took. Did they only breed one time? Do you know the date? Was it at the beginning or end of her heat cycle? Whatever decision you make we will be here to support you and I wish you and your baby the very best.

LoverofYorkies · 01-25-2009, 09:26 PM

Thank you for the replies. They only mated once (well one time when they came home and he was out of his playpen - unless he has learned to climb back into it! Which I cannot even believe he got out!) I received the blood test results today confirming her pregnancy, I waited to panic until I knew for sure she was pregnant.

C C Kent replied that the dog will not be able to whelp the puppies. What exactly would be her problem, would it be the inability for her hips to separate at this age? More physically taxing? All of the above?

Honestly, this morning I was leaning toward spaying her. I was thinking this morning that dog births are exactly like human birth--horrible, extremely risky, having to get cut and vacuum sucked, the need for an entire medical staff and hospital, a high chance of c-sections, excruciating pain. After googling everything I could, you-tubing births and researching, tonight I am leaning towards letting nature take its course. (Dog births don't look quite as bad as human births). But I just want to know if it is physically impossible for a 7 year old yorkie to whelp puppies unharmed? Or how likely is it that complications will arise? How likely that they will be life-threatening to the mother? Am I absolutely stupid to not terminate? Could it possibly be riskier to terminate the pregnancy? Basically, I guess do the risks outweight the benefits at this point?

This is why I sought out the advice of seasoned yorkie breeders. I figured everyone here would know better than anyone about when a yorkie is too old to have puppies, or your own personal experiences.

In terms of raising the puppies and the devotion and time required, yes, I have it. I do actually work from home so I would be here 24/7 and, should we take that course, I will devote everything to raising healthy, beautiful puppies. I can stay up all night and bottle feed if that is necessary.

Also, are there vets or "dog midwifes" who on call 24hrs to assist or is this totally unreasonable to expect?

katelin · 01-25-2009, 10:04 PM

This is a hard choice for sure. If you decide to let the pregnancy go forward, be sure you are totally comfortable with your vet and trust his advice.

I wish you the best of luck.

kpstoybox · 01-25-2009, 10:34 PM

More then likely...your girl will do just fine with delivery and motherhood.

With that said...please be ready emotionally, physically, and most importantly...financially should any of the many possible problems arise.

Oh...and

to Yorkie Talk!!!

msjagg · 01-25-2009, 11:05 PM

Hello and Welcome to Yorkie Talk. You have a tough decision to make and alot of breeders here to help you make it. I want you to know, whatever decision you make we're here to help you get through it!! Blessings and Good-Luck to you and your little girl...

wildcard · 01-26-2009, 04:15 AM

Personally I would spay her and not take the chance. At 7 her pelvis does not have the flexibility it would have had had she been bred at 2 or 3. Frankly I would be hesitant to ask a 7 year old bitch who had free whelped previously to whelp let alone a maiden. Labor is often more difficult- more incidents of "packing it in" so to speak- in older girls. A spay at this point has less risk than an emergency section. Also remember the incidence of puppies who die during a difficult whelping is not infrequent, and your chances for a difficult whelp are higher than most. If you do decide to allow her to whelp, you will need to have your vet on call and or good access to am emergency vet. You might be able to find a local breeder of toy dogs to help you, but the chance of needing vet care is high.

jencar98 · 01-26-2009, 05:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoverofYorkies

Good evening everyone,

I love her more than anything in the world and do not want to see her in pain or hurt or suffering.

Thank you for the help.

This statement is where your answer lies. If you feel this way, have her spayed and then the possibility of her being in pain, hurt or suffering is eliminated. Regardless of whether or not she is capable of whelping, she will be in pain and will suffer - I've yet to know of a birth (of any species) that doesn't experience pain and suffering during the process.

This world does not need any more unplanned puppies, why contribute?

01-25-2009, 07:28 PM	#1
LoverofYorkies YorkieTalk Newbie! Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: California Posts: 4	HELP! Should I terminate?!? Good evening everyone, I need some advice! My husband and I just returned from our honeymoon, and my 7 year old yorkie female stayed with my parents while we were gone. Low and behold, my parents DID NOT listen and allowed their 3 year old male to impregnante my girl. (I know, I know she SHOULD have been spayed, however she has NEVER been around another male, and they were explicitly told to keep them apart. Apparently he scaled a playpen, and somehow got through a baby gate to get her). She is a healthy girl, but has never had a litter and I'm concerned about her age. Are the risks so high to her that I should terminate the litter? I hate to even think about that, and the vet says she should be okay since the male is smaller, but I do not want to risk her health or life (and yes, please, I know that I should NOT have ever allowed her to get into this situation, but I made a serious mistake by allowing her to stay with them and by not spaying her, but what do I do now that I have already messed up?) I love her more than anything in the world and do not want to see her in pain or hurt or suffering. Thank you for the help.

01-25-2009, 07:48 PM	#2
LoverofYorkies YorkieTalk Newbie! Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: California Posts: 4	Also I would not want to terminate (because the thought of that is just heartbreaking) unless the risk to her is great. That will also be a horrible decision. I fear I am faced with 2 bad options here and don't know what I should do! Is it too risky?

01-25-2009, 07:53 PM	#3
Nancy1999 I ♥ Joey & Ralphie! Donating Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Arizona Posts: 25,396 Blog Entries: 2	I'm so sorry you are going through this, I've read that the cut off age is 5 if they haven't had a litter, apparently their pelvic bones don't spread so easily after that. I'm surprised the vet thought everything would be ok. I'm sure you'll get a lot of good advice, and I just want to wish you the best of luck with your decision. __________________ NancyJoey Proud members of the CrAzYcLuB and YAP! ** Just Say No to Puppymills – Join YAP! Yorkshire Terrier Club of America – Breeder Referrals

01-25-2009, 07:53 PM	#4
Sunnie Donating YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: So. California Posts: 4,057	This is a tough one. At first I thought you said 7 months old and I would have told you yes in this case. But I reread and see that she is 7 years old. I almost think I would say yes in this case too. I would talk to your vet about it more or see another vet. The issue is not the size of the male, but the age of your female. __________________ Sonya, Owned by Ladybug, Tilly, Sunshine, Beamer, Rainbow, Sonny and Righteous RIP Sunnie (11/12/2003-7/31/2009)

01-25-2009, 07:57 PM	#5
RONLYNN Donating YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Manhattan Beach, CA Posts: 1,635	I'm not sure what I would do but if you didn't plan on breeding your dog why would you not spay her? I can't imagine having to deal with her being in heat for all those years. Good luck with whatever you decide. __________________ Ronda & Teddi PPU - Petite Pups United Member The PINK Club Member **

01-25-2009, 08:09 PM	#6
LoverofYorkies YorkieTalk Newbie! Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: California Posts: 4	I was going to spay her but, honestly, as silly as it sounds, I got really, really scared about putting her under anaesthesia. I kept delaying it and delaying it, and putting it off for my own selfish fear, hoping that she would never come to have any problems. I feel very guilty about it and understand how irresponsible it is, but really was so scared to do it. Now here we are ... It is just so hard because morally I feel that it would be horrendous to kill innocent little puppies, but I know labor is not an easy process and I have no experience whatsoever. She is a strong girl, but like everyone has said, she is not a spring chicken! The vet told me that, basically, that if she was too old to have puppies she probably would not have gotten pregnant, which seems like a stupid thing, so yes I will see another vet. She is on the larger size and the male was very small and she is otherwise very healthy (blood tests came back okay) no health problems. He said that the primary problem for breeding older dogs is their inability to get pregant, birth defects, and a more taxing labor, but he said he thinks she can do it and be fine. So ... I dont know!!!! I'm so scared.

01-25-2009, 08:35 PM	#7
mscat YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Hanford, CA Posts: 4,895	I did have to go through this with a young cat a long time ago. She was only about 7-8 months , I did terminate the pregnancy and had her spayed at the same time. It was a very difficult decison , however it felt like it was the right thing to do. __________________ "No matter how little money & how few possessions, you own, having a dog makes you rich."

01-25-2009, 09:02 PM	#9
bjh Donating YT 5000 Club Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Southeast Texas Posts: 7,959	It is a tough decision. Are you in a position to devote all the necessary time needed in raising a litter of pups? Most likely the female will be just fine but there is more to consider. Do you work or do you stay at home? It is a lot of responsibility caring for momma and babies for 10 to 12 weeks. There is also no guarantee the breeding took. Did they only breed one time? Do you know the date? Was it at the beginning or end of her heat cycle? Whatever decision you make we will be here to support you and I wish you and your baby the very best.

01-25-2009, 09:26 PM	#10
LoverofYorkies YorkieTalk Newbie! Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: California Posts: 4	Thank you for the replies. They only mated once (well one time when they came home and he was out of his playpen - unless he has learned to climb back into it! Which I cannot even believe he got out!) I received the blood test results today confirming her pregnancy, I waited to panic until I knew for sure she was pregnant. C C Kent replied that the dog will not be able to whelp the puppies. What exactly would be her problem, would it be the inability for her hips to separate at this age? More physically taxing? All of the above? Honestly, this morning I was leaning toward spaying her. I was thinking this morning that dog births are exactly like human birth--horrible, extremely risky, having to get cut and vacuum sucked, the need for an entire medical staff and hospital, a high chance of c-sections, excruciating pain. After googling everything I could, you-tubing births and researching, tonight I am leaning towards letting nature take its course. (Dog births don't look quite as bad as human births). But I just want to know if it is physically impossible for a 7 year old yorkie to whelp puppies unharmed? Or how likely is it that complications will arise? How likely that they will be life-threatening to the mother? Am I absolutely stupid to not terminate? Could it possibly be riskier to terminate the pregnancy? Basically, I guess do the risks outweight the benefits at this point? This is why I sought out the advice of seasoned yorkie breeders. I figured everyone here would know better than anyone about when a yorkie is too old to have puppies, or your own personal experiences. In terms of raising the puppies and the devotion and time required, yes, I have it. I do actually work from home so I would be here 24/7 and, should we take that course, I will devote everything to raising healthy, beautiful puppies. I can stay up all night and bottle feed if that is necessary. Also, are there vets or "dog midwifes" who on call 24hrs to assist or is this totally unreasonable to expect?

01-25-2009, 10:04 PM	#11
katelin YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: California Posts: 1,778	This is a hard choice for sure. If you decide to let the pregnancy go forward, be sure you are totally comfortable with your vet and trust his advice. I wish you the best of luck. __________________ *LaVail Yorkshire Terriers*

01-25-2009, 10:34 PM	#12
kpstoybox Do you like Parti's?" Donating Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Michigan Posts: 2,337	More then likely...your girl will do just fine with delivery and motherhood. With that said...please be ready emotionally, physically, and most importantly...financially should any of the many possible problems arise. Oh...and to Yorkie Talk!!! __________________ Karen and the PartiTime Kids There's always a parti at my house!

01-25-2009, 11:05 PM	#13
msjagg YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Lancaster, PA. U.S.A. Posts: 1,449	Hello and Welcome to Yorkie Talk. You have a tough decision to make and alot of breeders here to help you make it. I want you to know, whatever decision you make we're here to help you get through it!! Blessings and Good-Luck to you and your little girl... __________________ Jodi G. Mum to : -Sammy,:-Baron Georg, :-Sophie Kennedy, and Carys Bella...

01-26-2009, 04:15 AM	#14
wildcard Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Indiana Posts: 236	Personally I would spay her and not take the chance. At 7 her pelvis does not have the flexibility it would have had had she been bred at 2 or 3. Frankly I would be hesitant to ask a 7 year old bitch who had free whelped previously to whelp let alone a maiden. Labor is often more difficult- more incidents of "packing it in" so to speak- in older girls. A spay at this point has less risk than an emergency section. Also remember the incidence of puppies who die during a difficult whelping is not infrequent, and your chances for a difficult whelp are higher than most. If you do decide to allow her to whelp, you will need to have your vet on call and or good access to am emergency vet. You might be able to find a local breeder of toy dogs to help you, but the chance of needing vet care is high.