All Missourians - You can help stop puppymills

[miabellaamoure]

Please count me in on this thread as one who is thoroughly disgusted by anyone who profits off of the back of dogs of any breed that is not suitable for any living creature.

I think if puppy mill operators were made to live in the filth they require of those poor animals it would be a "start".

If Judges can sentence Slum Landlords to live in the pigsty's they rent out to humans...than, I think a cage under the same conditions their animals must live in should be Puppy Mill owners next place of residence.

[jencar98]

Originally Posted by TLC

It is such beyond sicken...

I was thinking all night about these dogs and I came to the conclusion that, the amount of normal caring people in this world are really slim to none.

Just think...We have the really evil and horrible sickos that do beyond aweful things to people, and they act that way no matter where they are, so they are picked out of society pretty easy. BUT then, we have these evil f-puppymillers that abuse and neglect innocent animals all day long for years, and yet most of the world don't even know who they are, they can't pin point them out, because in public they blend in, they act like "normal people", they go to church, or they are in politics, or they even sit next to me and you in the movies, they go to their kids school events, etc...

I really just can't stand it anymore, I see these photos of puppy mill prisoners, and I just can't understand how anyone can think it is ok??? When a dog is so matted you can figure out what "it" is, how does that go by that it's ok, and these sickos then go off to church or their kids soccer game ~ WTF

This is so true from my experience back when I had gone to those breeder auctions.....they sure don't wear signs announcing they operate a puppymill! Many of them looked like they could be anyone's grandpa or grandma. To them, they are doing nothing wrong - in their environment they talk freely, and openly about "the dog business" like the dogs are nothing but livestock. And, the dogs are treated at times worse than livestock. They see dogs only as money in their pockets and care for them only enough to keep the cash cow alive.

I watched the video earlier Nancy posted on another thread and it broke my heart, brought back horrible memories of seeing the same filthy conditions, that shredded up dirty paper the breeders use to line the cages....row after row of cages, each filled with scared, pitiful, sad and often sick eyes looking back at me.....their eyes haunt me.

I hope Missouri is successful in getting legislation passed and soon!

And, thank you Cindy for trying to make/keep us all aware!

[livingdustmops]

Originally Posted by red98vett

man - I've known it was a big number but had no idea ONE state had that many operating - There really needs to be stronger laws and they won't happen without people stepping up -

good thread Cindy - I'm still shocked....3 GRAND in a state that's surrounded by other puppy mill states that are notorious - it's sickening

Me too Vee...and how many of them will even be alive a year from now?

[livingdustmops]

Originally Posted by lillymae

Ok let me try again. I know what's in my brain but getting it into print is another thing ( ADHD ) I don't have a problem with respectable breeding I do have a problem with the ignorant breeding ( BYBs, Mills, etc ) and anything inhumane.
Now I'm not sure what you mean when you say AKC and all parent clubs would never allow it. Are you saying AKC is ok with poorly bred dogs ?
Seriously not being smart here, Educate me.
In my opinion USDA is a joke and I think they should be controlled by HSUS and ASPCA.
One last thing, I agree with you that there should be moore members involved in this section. One thing I think would help is if it were moved closer to the top up where news is. What do you think ?

I understand about ADHD....join the crowd..

The problem is, who determines who a respective breeder is? You, me, other BYB's? Laws have to be established for everyone...you can't single out certain ones to allow breeding or not. We have members on YT who are not respectable and we have members who are...and some members only care where they can buy the cheapest dog and some care for quality dogs. It is a mixed bag.

AKC can only survive if dogs are being registered to them and Parent Clubs do not want any rights taken away from their breeders. Law after law that comes up is turned down because of the fear of not being able to breed when a breeder wants to. All of this you can read at AKC's website under legislation. AKC does register litters from commercial volume breeders. This is also in the clubs minutes on the AKC website.

This is a very complex issue and there is tons of information on the internet to research...along with some of it on YT but it can't be answered in one thread.

To answer your question..should this area be moved to the top and then more people would read it...No..people manage to do all the games we have in this section but they can't move down one thread...No...most people are not really interested in helping make change.

[lillymae]

Originally Posted by livingdustmops

I understand about ADHD....join the crowd..

The problem is, who determines who a respective breeder is? You, me, other BYB's? Laws have to be established for everyone...you can't single out certain ones to allow breeding or not. We have members on YT who are not respectable and we have members who are...and some members only care where they can buy the cheapest dog and some care for quality dogs. It is a mixed bag.

AKC can only survive if dogs are being registered to them and Parent Clubs do not want any rights taken away from their breeders. Law after law that comes up is turned down because of the fear of not being able to breed when a breeder wants to. All of this you can read at AKC's website under legislation. AKC does register litters from commercial volume breeders. This is also in the clubs minutes on the AKC website.

This is a very complex issue and there is tons of information on the internet to research...along with some of it on YT but it can't be answered in one thread.

To answer your question..should this area be moved to the top and then more people would read it...No..people manage to do all the games we have in this section but they can't move down one thread...No...most people are not really interested in helping make change.

Why,Why,Why does it all have to be so difficult ? cruelty laws should be cruelty laws and they should be the same for all states I think. And for sure the punishment needs to be stiffer and needs to be enforced. I think people don't enter this section because they can't cope with the ugly truth and they don't know what to do about it or how to do something about it. I can tell you that sometimes I have to stay away from all of it as it starts to affect my health and I cannot sleep at night. That's when I have to step back from it for awhile just to regain my strength and GO POWER. I'm sure anyone who rescues has to do the same from time to time. It takes all the strength you have and then some. Oh yea , when I said I think you already know the answer to the question, I was talking about the # of dogs that come from these mills. Seriously I think they need regs as to how many breeding pairs that 1 person is allowed. Like maybe 20 per person. I don't get how it's ok for these mills to keep producing puppies while dogs die by the thousands in shelters everyday. That's cruelty in itself.

[livingdustmops]

Originally Posted by lillymae

Why,Why,Why does it all have to be so difficult ? cruelty laws should be cruelty laws and they should be the same for all states I think. And for sure the punishment needs to be stiffer and needs to be enforced. I think people don't enter this section because they can't cope with the ugly truth and they don't know what to do about it or how to do something about it. I can tell you that sometimes I have to stay away from all of it as it starts to affect my health and I cannot sleep at night. That's when I have to step back from it for awhile just to regain my strength and GO POWER. I'm sure anyone who rescues has to do the same from time to time. It takes all the strength you have and then some. Oh yea , when I said I think you already know the answer to the question, I was talking about the # of dogs that come from these mills. Seriously I think they need regs as to how many breeding pairs that 1 person is allowed. Like maybe 20 per person. I don't get how it's ok for these mills to keep producing puppies while dogs die by the thousands in shelters everyday. That's cruelty in itself.

I know it is tough and you do have to harden your heart a little bit about all of this stuff...

This has taken me years to get to this point of understanding what is going on in this country but you have to understand it is BIG business (last I knew 94 billion dollars - pet industry) and many people are going to protect their interests. Only if we (the voters) make the politicans aware that change has to happen will it happen. New ideas have to come about (please read in the news section about no-kill) and when issues come up write to legislators to help end this suffering.

[lillymae]

Originally Posted by livingdustmops

I know it is tough and you do have to harden your heart a little bit about all of this stuff...

This has taken me years to get to this point of understanding what is going on in this country but you have to understand it is BIG business (last I knew 94 billion dollars - pet industry) and many people are going to protect their interests. Only if we (the voters) make the politicans aware that change has to happen will it happen. New ideas have to come about (please read in the news section about no-kill) and when issues come up write to legislators to help end this suffering.

Huh, harden my heart. Ive been rescuing anything that can bark, meow, whinny, chirp or squalk for the last 30 yrs and have not yet figured out how to do that. And I haven't found any therapy or drugs to help me out with it either. My attitude and thoughts have changed over the years some for the better some for the worse but when I look into the eyes of something injured or sick , well my heart still breaks.So I load it up in my van and off we go.

[livingdustmops]

Originally Posted by lillymae

Huh, harden my heart. Ive been rescuing anything that can bark, meow, whinny, chirp or squalk for the last 30 yrs and have not yet figured out how to do that. And I haven't found any therapy or drugs to help me out with it either. My attitude and thoughts have changed over the years some for the better some for the worse but when I look into the eyes of something injured or sick , well my heart still breaks.So I load it up in my van and off we go.

Oh no I didn't mean towards the animals..I meant towards the politicians and the system.

[lillymae]

Originally Posted by livingdustmops

Oh no I didn't mean towards the animals..I meant towards the politicians and the system.

Lol. Gotcha. As for the politicians Hmmm how can I put this nicely. Oh I know, ya know when you see their face on the side of a bus, well I think that's actually supposed to mean that bus is the one that's supposed to run em over. HA !

[Woogie Man]

With the estimated # of mills in Missouri (3000), that works out to over 26 per county. Figuring that the # isn't evenly spread around the state and you can imagine that some counties have millers tripping over each other.

I hope Missouri can get a handle on this, but I have to wonder if this is the route to go. This is an initiative to get puppy mill anti-cruelty legislation passed. Well, Missouri already has felony animal cruelty laws and they still have this mess. I don't see how passing another law will help if the ones already on the books aren't being enforced.

The danger I see is that, if this initiative succeeds, that people will go 'hurrah' and then move on...thinking the problem is solved. No law will do any good without enforcement. The laws are already on the books. What's needed is to get the prosecutors off their butts and enforce these laws.

From what I'm seeing, this initiative won't do anything to stop mills....only to improve the conditions there. This could be done by enforcing existing laws. If they aren't being enforced, just what in the world will a new law do?

Cindy, just as you and I have been discussing in the pet over-population thread, the answers may well be in front of our faces already. What is lacking is a will to see these solutions carried out.

For me, the single biggest thing that could be done is plain and simple....

ENFORCE ANTI-CRUELTY LAWS

[lillymae]

Originally Posted by Woogie Man

With the estimated # of mills in Missouri (3000), that works out to over 26 per county. Figuring that the # isn't evenly spread around the state and you can imagine that some counties have millers tripping over each other.

I hope Missouri can get a handle on this, but I have to wonder if this is the route to go. This is an initiative to get puppy mill anti-cruelty legislation passed. Well, Missouri already has felony animal cruelty laws and they still have this mess. I don't see how passing another law will help if the ones already on the books aren't being enforced.

The danger I see is that, if this initiative succeeds, that people will go 'hurrah' and then move on...thinking the problem is solved. No law will do any good without enforcement. The laws are already on the books. What's needed is to get the prosecutors off their butts and enforce these laws.

From what I'm seeing, this initiative won't do anything to stop mills....only to improve the conditions there. This could be done by enforcing existing laws. If they aren't being enforced, just what in the world will a new law do?

Cindy, just as you and I have been discussing in the pet over-population thread, the answers may well be in front of our faces already. What is lacking is a will to see these solutions carried out.

For me, the single biggest thing that could be done is plain and simple....

ENFORCE ANTI-CRUELTY LAWS

Hey, did you climb inside my brain. That's exactly what I wanted to say but it was all scrambled around in there and I couldn't get it out. Good Job !

[livingdustmops]

This is my take...the officials do not know the people of the state even care about these animals and so they do nothing...this is the first shot to make the lives more livable for these animals.

I know people keep saying the laws are on the books ...yada yada yada but I have to ask why are they being ignored? Why is nothing changing for these living conditions of these animals. I have been watching this for over 10 years...at least I see this as a wake up call for the state of Misery...sorry Missouri.

I will also say USDA reqquirements SUCK and something has to be done to end this acceptable way of forcing animals to live and the excessive breeding. I would love to know how many of them are AKC dogs?

How much $$$ is being thrown by lobbyists so nothing changes. With this amount of breeders this is big business for the state and it helps their tax base. Do you really think things will change if everything stays the same?

[Woogie Man]

Originally Posted by livingdustmops

This is my take...the officials do not know the people of the state even care about these animals and so they do nothing...this is the first shot to make the lives more livable for these animals.

I know people keep saying the laws are on the books ...yada yada yada but I have to ask why are they being ignored? Why is nothing changing for these living conditions of these animals. I have been watching this for over 10 years...at least I see this as a wake up call for the state of Misery...sorry Missouri.

I will also say USDA reqquirements SUCK and something has to be done to end this acceptable way of forcing animals to live and the excessive breeding. I would love to know how many of them are AKC dogs?

How much $$$ is being thrown at lobbyists so nothing changes. With this amount of breeders this is big business for the state and it helps their tax base.

If this serves as a wake up call for Missourians, so much the better. But you make my point when you say the laws on the books are being ignored. I have no confidence in a new law being treated any differently.

I think all this effort could just as equally be applied to pressuring county prosecutors to enforce the laws. That road is going to have to be traveled at some point anyway if this thing goes through so why not spend the money and effort to do it now?

I would like to see legislative efforts targeted at tweaking the anti-cruelty laws to separate the laws governing companion animals from the standards for farm animals. Not that i think that the farm animal issue isn't horrible, but separating the two into different categories would at least dilute the strength of those opposing these efforts.

Here in Mississippi the recent felony animal cruelty bill was defeated in large part to farm groups. If these folks can be separated from millers, the millers lose clout. In the meantime, rather than worrying about lobbyists and such, why not go after them with the tools at hand? How many more dogs will suffer waiting for this initiative? It would be more effective to get a few hundred signatures from every county and present them to the county government at a public meeting IMO. If only a few counties could be moved to act, it could have a snowball effect.

[livingdustmops]

My statement about the laws was a generalization...I need to go see what the laws are...Maybe they aren't being ignored because there aren't any but the USDA...which are very poor...

Sadly we have a number of people from Missouri on YT and none of them have commented...the silence is deafing isn't it.

[Woogie Man]

What's sad is the lack of interest in this forum by YTers in general. I sometimes feel like it's just preaching to the choir.

I would say that as far as the USDA and any other body is concerned, no law allows for the blatant cruelty like in the video Nancy posted...yet it happens every day. That's why I'm an enforcement advocate more than a legislative one. Animals suffer day in and day out while the newest group or coalition bangs their head on the wall of their legislature. When you get a group together on one issue, you can't afford to squander that energy chasing red herrings.